
Pass T- :; '. Wli 



Book 







M1 



OFFICIAL DONATION. 



REPORT 



JOINT COMMITTEE 



GENEKAL ASSEMBLY OF ALABAMA, 



IN REGARD TO THE AEEEGED 



Election of Geo. E. Spencer 

AS XJ. JS. SENATOR, 



TOGETHER WITH 



MEMORIAL AND EVIDENCE. 



MONTGOMERY, ALA. : 

W. W. SCREWS, STATE PRINTER. 

1875. 



»| HI # & Sato" 

tfSnKiSK Eve HBH 

mi Dl 



CORRECTION. 

On page 170 in testimony of Mr. Stribling the word ''not," 
immediately preceding his signature, should not appear, and 
the sentence should read "and did vote for bim." 



REPORT 

OF THE 

JOINT COMMITTEE 



GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF ALABAMA, 



IN REGARD TO THE ALLEGED 



Election of Geo, E, Spencer 

AS U. ». SENATOR, 



TOGETHER WITH 



MEMORIAL AND EVIDENCE. 



MONTGOMERY, ALA. : 

W. W. SCREWS, STATE PRINTER. 

1875. 



i^V* 



REPORT. 



To the General Assembly of Alabama : 

The Joint Committee to whom was referred an inquiry into 
the facts relating to the alleged election of George E. Spencer 
as a Senator of the United States from Alabama, and the 
means by which such election was procured and his creden- 
tials as a Senator were obtained, respectfully submit the fol- 
lowing report. A statement of the proceedings of the com- 
mittee, and the depositions of all the witnesses who were ex- 
amined by the committee are herewith submitted : 

The committee, through its chairman, informed Mr. Spen- 
cer by letter and by telegraph of the time and place of the 
opening of the investigation, and invited him to attend in per- 
son or by his agents. He did not see proper to avail himself 
of the opportunity. 

The resolutions of the General Assembly of Alabama, un- 
der which your committee was required to act are as follows : 

" Whereas, in the opinion of the General Assembly of Ala- 
bama, Hon. George E. Spencer does not rightfully occupy a 
seat in the Senate of the United States, as a Senator from 
Alabama. 

Be it resolved by the House of Representatives, (the Senate 
concurring,) that a joint committee to consist of two Senators 
and three members of the House of Representatives, be ap- 
pointed to investigate, examine and report to the two Houses 
of the General Assembly the facts relating to his alleged elec- 
tion as Senator, and the means by which such election was 
procured, and his credentials as a Senator were obtained. 

Resolved 2. That said committee, or a majority of them, 
may sit during the session of the General Assembly and dur- 



ing the recess at any place in this State, and shall have au- 
thority to send for persons and papers, and to call witnesses 
before them to be examined on oath, and to employ a clerk 
to keep the record and proceeding of the committee. 

Resolved 3. That said committee report with all conveni- 
ent speed a memoral to be addressed by the General Assem- 
bly to the Senate of the United States touching the claims of 
George E. Spencer to a seat in that body as a Senator from 
Alabama, and shall report to the two Houses ^the evidence 
taken under these resolutions. 

The first branch of the inquiry submitted to the committee, 
as to the facts relating to his alleged election, is answered 
by the records of the proceedings of the two bodies which 
met in Montgomery on the 18th November, 1872, one at the 
capitol and the other at the United States court room, each 
claiming to be the General Assembly of Alabama. Said pro- 
ceedings appear in the Journals of the Senate and House of 
Representatives of the General Assembly of Alabama of the 
session of November, 1873. 

Your committee does not consider it necessary to review 
the action of said bodies further than the same relates to 
other matters, disclosed in the evidence herewith submitted. 

The Senate of the United States has voted upon two prop- 
ositions in connection with the alleged right of Mr. Spencer 
to a seat in that body. 

1st. That a certificate of election issued to him by the 
Governor of Alabama, under the great seal of the State, con- 
formably to the requirements of the laws of the United States, 
entitled him prima facie to a seat in the Senate, but that this 
right is subject to be contested. 

2d. That Mr. F. W. Sykes was not duly elected to the seat 
in the Senate thus held by Mr. Spencer. 

Your committee does not deem it necessary at this time to 
question the decisions resulting from these votes, in order to 
ascertain the merits of Mr. Spencer's claim to a seat in the 
Senate, but it is respectfully insisted that, under the consti- 
tution and laws of Alabama, a lawful general assembly con- 
sists, in the first instance, of those who hold certificates of 



election issued by the Secretary of State, upon returns made 
to him by the county and district supervisors of elections, as 
the case may be. 

It certainly is true in our American system of State gov- 
ernments, each acting under the powers asserted by it in its 
own constitution, and conceded to it by its sister States, and by 
the Federal government, that when a house of a legislature, 
admitted to be a lawful body, has made a decision that is 
final as to its membership, the Senate of the United States 
cannot reverse or disregard that decision. The report of the 
majority of the committee on privileges and elections of the 
Senate of the United States in Mr. Sykes' case is conclusive 
on this point. 

That committee say : " In the opinion of your committee 
it is not competent for the Senate to inquire as to the right 
of individual members to sit in a legislature which is conced- 
ed to have a quorum, in both houses, of legally elected mem- 
bers." Any final decision made by the respective houses of 
the consolidated legislature, as to the election of persons 
claiming seats therein, and if made in accordance with law, 
must be taken as final and conclusive on every other tri- 
bunal. The question submitted to the Senate of the United 
States by the report of the majority of said committee, is thus 
stated by it : " That Mr. Sykes makes no case entitling him 
to the seat now occupied by Mr. Spencer." 

The minority of the committee submitted with their report 
the following resolution : 

Resolved, That Francis W. Sykes, having been duly and 
legally elected a Senator from the State of Alabama for the 
constitutional term commencing March 4th, lo73, is entitled 
to the seat in this bocty now held by the Hon. George E. 
Spencer." 

In the Senate of the United States the contest was alone 
between Mr. Sykes and Mr. Spencer. Both reports relate to 
the right of Mr. Sy^es to a seat in the Senate, and the action 
of the Senate, following this question, only decided that Mr. 
Spencer's right, on his mere credentials was better than Mr. 
Sykes' right to the seat. This decision is not irrevocable, 



but, treating it as such for the present, it does not cover the 
question now presented by the States. As between the peo- 
ple of the State of Alabama, the real constituent, and Mr. 
Spencer, the incumbent of the office of Senator, it is still an 
open question tohether he is -rightfully and laivfully entitled to 
that office. The Senate has only decided that, prima facie, he 
is entitled to occupy by the seat, because no one has ap- 
peared and asserted a claim to the seat he holds who has a 
better right to it. 

In the opinion of your committee, the General Assembly 
of Alabama should ask the Senate of the United States to 
reconsider some of the grounds apparently taken in the vote 
by which the resolution accompanying the report of the ma- 
jority of the Committee on Privileges and Elections in the 
Sykes-Spencer contest was adopted ; and especially that part 
of the report which seems to assert the proposition that the 
Senate can rightfully assume that certain individuals, who 
hold certificates of election, are not members of the houses 
of the General Assembly, because they were not elected, with- 
out an opportunity having been afforded to them, either by 
the Senate of the United States or by the houses to which 
they were accredited, to establish the fact of their election. 

In arriving at the conclusion that Mr. Sykes was not enti- 
tled to the seat occupied by Mr. Spencer, the committee of 
the U. S. Senate deny that a Legeslature can be lawfully 
composed of persons holding certificates of election, unless a 
quorum is present in each house, of persons actually elected, 
and rest the legality of the body that elected Mr. Spencer 
upon the fact, as asserted, that in each house there was a quo- 
rum of members actually elected by the people, at the time of his 
election. 

In their report the committee say, " Therefore, in determin- 
ing as to the right of Spencer or Sykes to this seat, the Sen- 
ate is compelled to choose between the body in fact elected, 
organized, acting and recognized by the executive department 
as the Legislature, and another body, organized in form, but 
without election, and without a recognition on the part of the 
executive of the State at the time they pretended to elect 
Sykes." 



That committee further say : " The 'persons in the two todies, 
claiming to he the Senate and House of Representatives, tvho 
voted jor Spencer, constituted a quorum of both houses of the 
members actually elected." It is also stated in the report that 
these matters were conceded as facts on the Sykes-Spencer 
contest. They are not facts, and the State has never conced- 
ed them. The committee in its report does not deal with 
them as ascertained facts. The committee states the number 
of persons in the two houses that elected Spencer who were 
actually elected, but who had no certificates of election, at 
the uncertain number of eight or nine. On the theory of the 
majority of that committee, it required nine such persons to 
complete a quorum — six in the House and three in the Sen- 
ate. There were only two Senators who were afterwards de- 
clared elected, (Messrs. Dereen and Black,) who were seated 
in the Court-house Senate without certificates of election. If 
it was not true, then, that the persons who voted for Spencer 
constituted a quorum of both houses of the members " actu- 
ally elected," Spencer was not elected by a lawful body, accord- 
ing to the principle stated by the committee of the Senate. 

Your committee assert that there was not such a quorum 
in the Senate at the United States Court-rooms when Mr. 
Spencer was Voted for. Nineteen persons were present in 
said Senate, and all votod for Mr. Spencer. Of these, three 
were not, in fact, elected, to-wit : Baker, Chisholm, and Mil- 
ler. 

Neither did either of these persons hold certificates of elec- 
tion. So that, of the persons actually elected to the Senate 
of Alabama, or holding certificates of election, only sixteen 
were present when said pretended election took place. 

Baker and Chisholm were not recognized in the reorganiza- 
tion of the Legislature under the plan of the Attorney Gen- 
eral of the United States, as having ever been members of 
the Senate. 

They never attempted to assert a right to a seat in the re- 
organized Senate, and there is nothing in the archives of the 
State to show that they had ever been elected. From the be- 
ginning their election was not seriously asserted by any per- 



8 

son. Several witnesses testify that they were brought to 
Montgomery for the purpose of occupying seats to which all 
knew they had no just claim, Chisholm being relieved from 
duty in the custom house for the occasion, and Baker paid 
for his services. 

At the time of Mr. Spencer's alleged election, Mr, Martin 
of the senatorial district composed of the counties of Butler 
and Conecuh, and part of Escambia, held a certificate of elec- 
tion issued by the Secretary of State, and was seated in the 
Senate at the Capitol. Mr. Miller claiming to be Senator from 
the same district, but having no certificate of election, was 
seated in the Senate at the Court-house — his presence there 
being necessary to a quorum of members in that body. No 
contest had then beon instituted by Mr. Miller. Upon the 
reorganization of the Legislature under the plan of the At- 
torney General, Mr. Miller did contest Mr. Martin's seat, and 
the ultimate decision of that contest by the Senate of the 
State settles finally the question as to which of the claimants 
was actually elected from that district to the Senate of the 
State. 

It will be seen from an examination of the proceedings of 
the Senate in that matter, that Mr. Martin held the certificate 
of election, duly issued according to law, and that he was also 
actually elected to the office. The reports of the majority and 
minority of the committee show this fact in the most unques- 
tionable way. 

Since the entire question of the legality of the body that 
elected Mr. Spencer to the Senate, according to the views of 
the majority of the committee of the Senate of the United 
States on Privileges and Elections, depends on the fact whether 
Martin or Miller was elected, it is proper, in the opinion of 
your committee, to present in this report the history of the 
action of the Senate on this question, and, in its appropriate 
place, a review of the evidence, herewith submitted, which 
shows the conduct of Mr. Spencer in attempting to procure 
a decision of the contest in favor of Mr. Miller— conduct in 
the highest degree reprehensible, involving fraud, force, vio- 
lation of honorable pledges, and bribery. 



9 

On the 23d April, 1873, sixteen Senators presented a pro- 
test to the Senate of Alabama, which has been proven before 
your committee, to set forth the full and true state of facts 
relating to the Miller-Martin contest, which is as follows : 

PROTEST. 

"Mr. Parks presented the following protest, which was or- 
dered to be spread upon the journal : 

" The undersigned, members of the Senate of Alabama^dis- 
sent from the proceedings in the Senate, upon the 30th and 
31st days of January, 1873, in the matter of the contest be- 
tween William Miller, jr., and Edmund W. Martin, for the 
seat in this Senate from the 31st senatorial district, and pro- 
test against the acts and rulings of the President of the Sen- 
ate, upon the motions and resolutions before the Senate, by 
virtue of which the said Wiliam Miller, jr., has taken, and 
now occupies, a seat in this body as Senator from said dis- 
trict. 

•'The journal shows that the committee to which the said 
contest had been referred, to take testimon}' and report there- 
on, presented a divided report. One signed by Senator Pen- 
nington, chairman, reported that said Miller is entitled to the 
said seat ; the other, signed by Senatops Parks and Edwards, 
of the same committee, reported the following resolution : 

"Resolved, That Edmund W. Martin, the present sitting 
member, is legally and constitutionally elected for the 31st 
senatorial district, and is entitled to his seat as a member of 
this body for the term prescribed by law. 

" Upon the coming in of said reports, the Senator from 
Wilcox county moved — which was seconded by a Senator — 
that the resolution thus reported by Senators Parks and Ed- 
wards, of said committee, be adopted as the resolution of the 
Senate. Pending that motion, the Senator from Dallas moved 
— which was also seconded — as a substitute therefor, that the 
report presented by the chairman of that committee be 
adopted. 

" After discussion by the Senate, the President proceeded 
to take the sense of this Senate upon the question then pend- 
2 



10 

ing. The vote was taken by call of ayes and noes, and re- 
sulted in 16 ayes to 14 noes. 

" The President announced that the result of the vote was 
that Mr. Miller was entitled to be seated as Senator from the 
31st senatorial district. 

" The Senator from Shelby, upon the call of his name, voted 
nay, but within the time allowed by rule, changed his vote to 
aye, in order to be entitled to move a reconsideration of the 
vote ; and upon the announcement of the vote by the Presi- 
deut, did move to reconsider the vote just then taken by the 
Seriate. This occurred on January 30, 1873. The President 
intimated that the motion to reconsider was out of order, and 
would not be allowed. 

" Pending this question, the Senate adjourned till the 31st 
January, 1873, the Senator from Shelby retaining the floor. 

" On the morning of said 31st day of January, after further 
remarks by the Senator from Shelby, the President ruled that 
the said motion to reconsider the vote taken by the Senate as 
above stated, was out of order, and was not allowed. (The 
Senator from Shelby immediately demanded an appeal to the 
Senate from the decision of the chair upon the propriety and 
legality of his motion. The President decided that an appeal 
did not lie to the Senate from his said decision, and refused 
to permit any question to the Senate, whereby his said decis- 
ion could be reviewed by the Senate.) The Senator from 
Shelby thereupon in open Senate, from his place therein, pro- 
tested against the said decisions and rulings of the chair, and 
stated that as to proceed further would probably inaugurate 
violence and revolution, and as he saw no peaceful remedy 
provided by the law, he submitted, but with no concession as 
to the rights he claimed as a member of this Senate. 

" During the same session of the Senate the Senator from 
Pike called the attention of the Senate and the President to 
the State of the question pending before the Senate, that the 
vote which had been taken upon the motion of the Senator 
from Dallas, had placed his substitute (to-wit, that the report 
made by the chairman of the committee be adopted,) before 
the Senate, in the place and stead of the motion offered by 



11 

the Senator from Wilcox, and that this substituted motion 
should now be put to the Senate for a direct and final vote 
thereon, and moved— which was seconded — that the vote of 
the Senate be taken upon said substituted motion. The Pres- 
ident ruled that the Senator from Pike was out of order, and 
that his said motion was out of order, and refused to put his 
said motion, and refused to put the substitute offered by the 
Senator from Dallas to any vote other than had already been 
taken by the Senate. 

" From this ruling and decision of the President of the Sen- 
ate, the Senator from Pike demanded an appeal to the Senate, 
and claimed such decision by the Senate itself upon the rul- 
ings of its presiding officer, as a matter of right, belonging to 
him as a Senator, representing a portion of the people of this 
State. The President of the Senate ruled, and so decided, 
that no appeal to the Senate lay from his said decision, and 
refused to put such question of appeal himself, and refused 
to permit any appeal from his said decision to be put to the 
Senate by the Senator himself, or by any officer of the Senate, 
whereby his said decision might or could be reviewed by the 
Senate. 

"The Senator from Pike thereupon, from his place, in open 
session of the Senate, after prolonged and determined resist- 
ance, protested against the said decisions and rulings of the 
chair, and desisted from further pressing the assertion of his 
rights as Senator, only because prevailed on by his fellow 
Senators that all peaceable remedies were exhausted, and to 
assert his rights would require violent and revolutionary meas- 
ures ; and thereupon the Lieutenant Governor, from the chair 
of the Senate, as President thereof, declared William Miller 
to be entitled to be seated in this Senate, as Senator from the 
31st senatorial district, and directed him to be sworn in as 
such Senator. 

" Other Senators from their places in the Senate, likewise 
gave notice that they coincided in the views of the Senators 
from Shelby and Pike, and united with them in protesting 
against the rulings and decisions of the President in the 
premises, and against which they protested. 



12 

"Wherefore, the undersigned Senators from the districts 
set opposite their names, for themselves individually, and in 
behalf of the people, citizens of Alabama, of their said dis- 
tricts, whom they represent, do solemnly make and enter 
upon the journal of the Senate, this their protests against the 
said acts and doings of the said Lieutenant Governor, as 
President of the Senate, by him done in the presence of the 
Senate, and while presiding therein ; 

"Because the said Lieutenant Governor, as President of 
the Senate, announced as the result of the vote of the Senate 
upon the motion of the Senator from Dallas, that Mr. Miller 
was entitled to be seated as the Senator from the 31st sena- 
torial district of Alabama, when the true result was that said 
motion was substituted for the motion of the Senator from 
Wilcox, and should have been then put to the vote of the 
Senate for its final decision ; 

" Because, in overruling the motion of the Senator from 
Shelby for a reconsideration of the vote upon the motion of 
the Senator from Dallas, and refusing to put the same, he viola- 
ted the rules of order and parliamentary practice, which by law 
and custom govern the proceedings of the Senate and protect 
the rights of individual members and of the minority, and 
denied to that Senator his rights as a member of this body, 
secured to him by its rules ; 

" Because, in refusing to allow and put an appeal to the 
Senate, whereby the sense of the Senate could be taken upon 
the propriety of his ruling upon the former motion to recon- 
sider the vote upon the motion of the Senator from Dallas, 
the Lieutenant Governor, as President of the Senate, not 
only deprived the Senator from Shelby of rights which be- 
longed to him as Senator, but endangered the peace of the 
community, and assumed to himself dangerous, arbitrary and 
despotic power, whereby the liberty and security of the citi- 
zen are put in jeopardy. 

" We protest for the same reasons against the course pur- 
sued by the President of the Senate toward the Senator from 
Pike, whereby the dignity of the Senate is invaded, and the 
rights of Senators and of their constituents, the good people 
of Alabama, are denied. 



13 

" We further protest against these proceedings by and on 
the part of the President of the Senate, because, thereby, by 
his rulings and decisions, and not by the vote of the Senate, 
to whom alone such right and power constitutionally belong, 
one claimant to the seat in this body from the 31st senatorial 
district has been displaced, though he holds the legal certifi- 
cate thereto, and another has been seated in his place, with- 
out the judgment and sanction of the Senate legally and con- 
stitutionally expressed. 

" We cannot but regard these acts and rulings and decisions 
of the Lieutenant-Governor, who, by the law of the land, is 
simply the presiding officer of the Senate, but not a compo- 
nent part thereof, and not entitled to participate in its delib- 
erations, or to vote therein, except when its own judgment is 
so evenly balanced that it can make no expression of its will, 
as destructive of the integrity of the government, and of the 
right and freedom of the citizen. 

E. W. Cobb, 

Senator 8th District. 
Wm. H. Parks, 

Senator 32d District. 
Daniel Coleman, 

Senator 1st District. 
J. D. Driesbach, 

Senator 29th District. 
E. H. Ervin, 

Senator 30th District. 
J. M. Carmichael, 

Senator 33d District. 
G. W. Hewitt, 

Senator 7th District. 
S. Walton, 

Senator 27th District. 
W. H. Edwards, 

Senator 3d District. 

J. J. EOBINSON, 

Senator 11th District. 
J. M. Martin, 

Senator 9th District. 



14 



A. Snodgrass, 

Senator 5th District. 
A. Cunningham, 

Senator 10th District. 
Thomas Butler Cooper, 

Senator 6th District. 
P. Hamilton, 

Senator 28th District. 
John A. Terrell, 

Senator 12th District." 

The testimony of Hon. Lewis E. Parsons and other expe- 
rienced parliamentarians, shows that this , action of Lt. Gov. 
McKinstry, who was presiding in the Senate, was entirely 
without precedent, and a gross violation of the rights of the 
Senate. 

At a succeeding session of the Senate, it proceeded to dis- 
pose of this contest, by taking up the question in the stage in 
which it had been left, at a preceding session and by a final 
vote decided it in favor of Mr. Martin. 

An examination of the majority and minority reports of the 
select committee on the Miller-Martin contest, copies of which 
are herewith submitted, shows that Martin received a large 
majority of the legal votes actually cast ; but, in one county 
the vote for Martin was deposited in separate boxes, while 
that for Miller was deposited in the same boxes in which the 
ballots for other officers were deposited. This occurred by 
reason of the fact that the Senatorial district was composed 
in parts of new counties, and the boundaries of the Senatorial 
districts remained as they had been, and so divided the new 
counties. 

Gov. William H. Smith, the first Kepublican Governor of 
Alabama, in a proclamation of October 20th, 1870, advised 
the voters in the parts of new counties, thus included in said 
senatorial districts, to deposit their votes in separate boxes, 
so that the ballots for Senator could be sent for inspection to 
the supervisors of elections in the county designated by law 
as the counties to which returns of Senatorial elections should 



15 

be made, without any interference with the ballots cast in 
other local elections. 

It admits of no reasonable doubt that the advice thus given 
the people by Gov. Smith was correct. Those who voted for 
Martin followed these directions. It was upon this transpa- 
rent pretext alone, that it was claimed that 453 votes, hon- 
estly and lawfully cast for Martin should be rejected, and that 
Milller should be therefore declared elected. 

The Senate of the United States has given to the fact of 
an actual election by the people so much weight in determin- 
ing even the lawfulness of a General Assembly, that your 
committee cannot suppose it will even sanction, and certainly 
will never order the expulsion of a member of a State Sen- 
ate, by rejecting 453 votes cast for him, for no better reason 
than because the managers of the election gave honest heed 
and respect to a proclamation of the Governor, that the votes 
for Senator should be deposited in a separate box. 

If the Senate of the United States could have the legal 
right to reverse the decision of a State Senate as to 
the right of a person to a seat therein, your commit- 
tee are satisfied that after the most scrutinizing exam- 
ination and unfriendly criticism of its action, the Senate 
of the United States must sustain and approve the final de- 
cision of the Senate of Alabama, in declining to seat Mr. Mil- 
ler in the place of Mr. Martin — a decision made in strict 
compliance with parliamentary law and in the honest support 
of the rights of the people. 

Mr. Miller never for one moment, held his seat in the Sen- 
ate of Alabama by the consent of that body, nor by any other 
authority, judicial or ministerial, known to the laws of Ala- 
bama, and never had a right to hold such seat, not having 
received the vote of the people so to entitle him, and having 
no certificate of election. 

The branch of the inquiry under consideration will be fur- 
ther examined in discussing the evidence taken by the com- 
mittee, and we now proceed to examine the other branch of 
the inquiry that relates to the means by which Mr. Spencer's 
pretended election was procured, and his credentials as a 
Senator were obtained. 



16 

A large number of witnesses have been examined, but some 
have not been examined who know important facts touching 
these inquiries. 

Your committee preferred to confine the examination, as 
far as practicable, to those witnesses who are of the same po- 
licical party with Mr. Spencer. More than three-fourths of 
the witnesses are Republicans in their party relations. 

In 1872 the legislature was to be chosen that would elect a 
United States Senator. It was a doubtful matter whether 
the State would vote Democratic, as it had done two years 
previous, or Republican, as it had done four years before that 
time. A canvass for Senator was instituted in the Republi- 
can party, in which Mr. Spencer was an active candidate. 
His relations with the Executive Committee of the National 
Republican party gave him influence and money, and his po- 
sition as a Senator gave him a charge of official patronage, of 
which he had scured almost the entire control in Alabama. 
He had succeeded in breaking down the influence of Senator 
Warner, to a great extent, while they were colleagues, and 
had the possession of the entire field. His letter to Mr. Put- 
nam, then postmaster at Mobile, dated August 12th, 1871, 
shows that even then he so far counted upon his power as 
that he boasted that he had already gotten President Grant 
alarmed, and that he would soon do what Spencer and his 
friends wanted him to do. 

"New York, August 12, 1871. 
" My Dear Putnam : I have been travelling for the past two 
weeks and have just returned, and have just received and read 
your letters. I will promptly attend to all you wish. I wish 
you would pay for me, to the Herald Company, $100 — imme- 
diately. I will send you the money on the 25th, by express. 
I can not sooner, as I have been to some heavy expenses re- 
cently. The Herald is splendid, and just what we have need- 
ed. We must keep it alive, and will in a short time break 
down the opposition. Grant is already scared, and will soon 
do what we want. Keep the paper red hot. We must carry 
the war into Africa, and we will succeed. Send the paper to 
all the leading Republicans in the State. If the Warner pa- 



17 

per attacks me, give them the devil in return. My record, 
both public and private, will bear investigation. Tell Dr. 
Foster not to be alarmed, that I have not time to write him, 
but that I will stand by him. I have been working for a 
month on a matter, and shall succeed, that will make us a 
power in Alabama, and worth all the Federal patronage in a 
dozen States, and when accomplished they dare not deny us 
the patronage. Write me often, and keep me fully posted. I 
shall go to Washington this week, and will then attend to 
everything. Pay the Herald the $100, and I will surely send 
it to you on the 25th. 

" In great haste, your friend, 

"Geo. E. Spencer." 

This letter also discloses the fact that Mr. Spencer, who 
was then in the Senate, was using the power of his official 
station to get control of the Federal patronage in Alabama, 
and was using it as a perquisite of his office. This and other 
evidence in the case also establishes that Mr. Spencer's oppo- 
sition to Gen Warner, a Republican Senator, was attributa- 
ble to his determination to have exclusive control of the pa- 
tronage in Alabama, and that he intended to use it, and did 
use it almost entirely, for his personal and pecuniary advan- 
tage. 

In 1872, Mr. Spencer employed William Y. Turner, a col- 
ored ex-member of the Legislature from Elmore county, to 
assist in procuring the nomination of candidates by county 
conventions in several counties for the Legislature, who would 
give pledges to support him for the U. S. Senate. 

Turner had full authority from Spencer to promise these 
men Federal offices in consideration of their support. He 
made the promises and secured the nomination of the per- 
sons, who thus exchanged pledges with him. 

Turner was paid money by Mr. Spencer for this service 
and was also promised by him any position that could be se- 
cured by his influence in the LTnited States service, for secur- 
ing those votes for him as United States Senator. 

During the canvass of 1872> Turner was appointed, through 

3 



18 

Spencer's influence, special inspector of customs at Mobile, 
to enable him to support himself while in the canvass. 

He rendered no service in the custom-house, being con- 
stantly employed in the canvass. He received four dollars a 
day, and signed his vouchers and sent them to Mobile. He 
was not there during his term of office, except when he was 
sworn in. 

This office continued until Spencer was elected to the Sen- 
ate. During the two months Turner received $248. 

In support of his statements Turner produces "a letter from 
Mr. Spencer in the following words : 

Washington, September 14, 1872. 
My Dear Sir : Tour confirmation as inspector of customs 
was forwarded to Collector Miller yesterday, at $4 per diem 
pay. Go at once to Mobile, be sworn in, and apply for leave 
of absence until after the election, which Collector Miller will 
arrange for you. Show him this letter ; he will understand it. 
In haste, truly yours. 

Geo. E. Spencer. 
Hon. W. Y. Turner, Wetumpka, Ala. 

Further important support is given to Turner's statements 
by the letters of Spencer attached to his deposition, dated 
respectively September 4th, 1872, October 19th, 1872, Decem- 
ber 16, 1872, and October 7th, 1874. 

The last letter shows that an intimate friendship was main- 
tained between Turner and Spencer until late in 1874, and 
that Spencer was then using him as a stump -speaker in his 
interest in Alabama. 

In October, 1872, Spencer also had Robert Barber in his 
service, attempting to procure his election to the United States 
Senate, and to defeat other Republican aspirants. 

Mr. Barber was Clerk of the House of Representatives at 
the Court-house, and afterwards of the consolidated Legisla- 
ture at the Capitol. 

He was promised a Federal office by Spencer, in considera- 
tion of the assistance he should give Spencer in procuring his 



19 

election to the Senate. Two letters from Spencer to Barber, 
dated respectively 16th and 20th of October, 1872, are impor- 
tant supports to his statements. 

Spencer having heard that ex-Gov. Parsons, a Republican, 
was a candidate in Talladega county for the Legislature, and 
would also be a candidate for the U. S. Senate, sent Barber 
to a Mr. Wood, a Republican, to procure him to offer as an 
independent candidate to defeat Parsons, and to inform him 
that he would see that all the expenses of the canvass would 
be met. 

H. Ray Mayer and P. G. Clark were sent to Dallas county 
to defeat Alexander White, who was a candidate for the Legis- 
lature, by electing Beach, then a deputy collector of internal 
revenue under Widmer, because White was supposed to be in 
Parsons' interest. 

The better to succeed, Beach was to be a secret candidate, 
and White's name was to be left off the tickets, which were 
to be printed in Washington. The tickets were so printed, 
and White's name was left off almost one-half of them. 
White discovered the fraud in time to have his name printed 
in the blanks, and defeated Spencer's plan. With shameless 
falsehood Spencer charged, in one of the letters to Barber, 
that Gov. Parsons had gone to New York to obtain money to 
secure his election to the Senate by the Legislature. Gov. 
Parsons, unconscious of the libel, voted for Spencer in the 
Court-house Legislature ! 

Spencer gave D. C. Whiting $300 which he took to Lowndes 
county "to defray expenses " of a crowd that went therewith 
Barber to beat Stanwood and a colored man who were known 
opponents of Spencer, and to put in Hunter and two colored 
men who were favorable to Spencer. This plan succeeded. 

After Spencer's election, Hunter was promised Consul to 
Alexandria, Egypt. Spencer failed to keep his promise, and 
Hunter quit him in disgust. 

Hunter says, "After the reorganization, and a day or two 
before the day upon which I attempted to bring on an elec- 
tion for United States Senator in the consolidated or reorgan- 
ized legislature, D. C. Whiting showed me a telegram from 



20 

Spencer, who was then in Washington, in these words : 'Shall 
I have Hunter appointed now, or wait until the legislature 
adjourns? I think the latter plan preferable. Signed, Geo. 
E. Spencer.' The appointment referred to was the consulate 
to Alexandria, which had been filled by a TJtica, New York, 
man, two weeks previous to the date of the dispatch, and 
published in the Associated Press dispatches, and of which 
Spencer was fully aware." 

The intention of Mr. Spencer to procure a seat in the Sen- 
ate at every hazard, is sufficiently proven by the frauds and 
contrivances to which he resorted to defeat the election of 
such Republicans as he could not suborn to his purposes. 

But his evil machinations took a much wider sweep and a 
most dangerous form when he conspired to use the military 
power of the United States to deter men from voting in the 
State elections. His letter to Robert Barber dated October 
22, 1872, admits of no other possible explanation than that 
given by Barber in his answer to the following question: 

"2. I notice in the letter of October 22, 1872, the expres- 
sion — 'I wish Randolph, deputy U. S. Marshal, would use the 
company at Opelika in making arrests in Tallapoosa, Ran- 
dolph and Cleburne, as suggests ;' please explain the 

meaning of this." 

"A. I received a letter from Randolph county before the 
date of these letters, (6th and 22d of October, 1872,) suggest- 
ing that if troops should be sent into the counties named, 
enough voters would be run out of them, through fear of ar- 
rest, to secure the election of Republican representatives from 
these counties, and the letter of October 22d was in reply to 
a letter written to Spencer conveying to him this informa- 
tion." 

In the same letter in which he expresses this wish, he tells 
Barber that he had just returned from Louisville, where he 
had been to see Gen. Terry about troops for Alabama. He 

says: 

"I have had a company of cavalry sent to Livingston, a 



21 

detachment to Pickens county, a company of infantry to Eu- 
taw, a company to Demopolis, and a company to Seale sta- 
tion, Eussell county ; also, a squadron of cavalry to report to 
Marshal Thomas at Huntsville." 

No doubt can remain that this army of troops was sent by 
him to Alabama for the sole purpose of doing that in many 
counties, that he desired deputy marshal Randolph to do in 
Tallapoosa, Randolph and Cleburne. His object was to ter- 
rify the people. 

Several of the leading politicians of the Republican party 
of Alabama have been examined as witnesses in this cause, 
and with one accord they swear that this demand for troops 
was not made at the instance of that party. 

It was a personal enterprise of Mr. Spencer to secure the 
power to force himself into the Senate against the wishes even 
of the better men of his own party. 

General Healy, the U. S. Marshal for the middle and south- 
ern districts of Alabama, proves that no troops were used or 
needed dfter May, 1872, in making arrests or enforcing obe- 
dience to law in those districts, and Mr. Spencer had no con- 
trol of Randolph or any other deputy marshal acting under 
him. 

Judge Bruce, Governor Smith, Governor Parsons, and oth- 
ers, fully sustain and corroborate these statements. 

The testimony of Perrin and Squires, and other witnesses, 
touching the use of troops in other counties of the State, by 
the direction of Spencer and his agents, is strictly in accord- 
ance with Spencer's confessions in his letters to Barber. On 
this point, the evidence comes from various quarters and is all 
in harmony. 

It proves that Spencer devised and executed a general plan 
to use United States troops to organize the people of his own 
party into national guards for his support to crush out oppo- 
sition in the Republican ranks, and to oppress and worry the 
opposing party until they should be afraid to oppose him. 
He knew that his own party would not support him if they 
were left free to express their own wishes. 



! ' / 



22 

After all, the election in November, 1872, was very close 
between the political parties, and the seat in the Senate of 
the United States became an object of extreme solicitude. 

Almost every witness who had good opportunities to know 
the feeling in the Kepublican party declares that Spencer was 
not choice of his party for the Senate. 

They declare further that his election to the Senate became 
a political necessity, to prevent him from dividing his party 
by seceding, with a following of his personal retainers, from 
the Assembly at the Court House, and going to the Assembly 
at the Capitol. His desertion of his party was looked for at 
any moment, that the Democratic party might make a bid for 
him. 

These facts are referred to because they reflect light upon 
the means by which he attached to his fortunes and con- 
trolled the persons who supported his demand for a -re-elec- 
tion to the Senate. 

These means your committee declares upon the evidence 
were utterly corrupt. 

In a large number of instances, the persons who rendered 
to Spencer the most active and important services were re- 
warded with federal offices and employment through his 
assistance, as a Senator of the United States, as a compensa- 
tion for such services. 

These offices and employments were promised before the 
services were rendered, or whilst they were being rendered. 
Some such promises were made that were never redeemed. 

Promises were made by Spencer in person to members of 
the Legislature and others, and Hinds, Barber, Turner, 
H. Eay Mayer, Philip King and others had full authority 
from Spencer to make any promises of federal offices that 
were required to secure the influence of any persons in his 
behalf. 

These agents of Spencer made promises to any persons 
who could be influenced by them, and made direct bargains 
with them for their assistance, for which they in turn were to 
be paid with federal offices and employments. 

The evidence of Turner, and other witnesses, shows that 
by direct authority from Mr. Spencer promises were made to 



23 

m embers of the Court House Legislature of appointments to 
federal offices in consideration of the support of Mr. Spencer 
for a seat in the United States Senate, and witnesses M. D. 
Brainard and others testify that a large number of the mem- 
bers of that body did afterwards receive such appointments, 
as the following numeration will show : 

Senator J. Black was appointed deputy collector of internal 
revenue under Lou H. Mayer. 

Senator J. W. Dereen was made postmaster at Demop- 
olis. 

Senator George M. Duskin was made United States Dis- 
trict Attorney at Mobile. 

Senator J. C. Goodloe was appointed Collector of Customs 
at Mobile. 

To carry out an agreement of Spencer's, made with Bar- 
ber, to secure his influence in his election as Senator, Spen 
cer procured a position for Barber in the Custom House at 
Mobile, which paid him a considerable sum of money 
monthly. 

Goodloe wrote to Barber and asked him to send on to him 
his application for the place, under the civil-service regula- 
tions, and told him that no duty would be required of him, 
and that when his monthly pay should fall due he (Goodloe) 
would send him blank drafts or receipts, which he could sign 
and forward to him, so that he would be saved the trouble 
even of visiting Mobile to get his pay ; so that Goodloe not 
only procured office for himself, but assisted Spencer in pay- 
ing a debt to Barber with an office, whereby the United States 
was grossly defrauded. And so it has been in reference to 
several sinecure positions which Goodloe has aided Spencer's 
followers to get. 

William Miller, jr., who had the contest with Martin for a 
seat in the Senate, received the office of postmaster, and was 
made deputy collector of internal revenue. His brother, an 
unnaturalized foreigner, and just arrived at age, was ap- 
pointed to the important office of deputy collector of customs 
at Mobile, as stated by Mr. Southworth. 

J. L. Pennington, Senator, was made Governor of Dakota 
Territory. 



24 

A. P. Wilson, Senator, was made postmaster at Mont- 
gomery. 

W. R. Chisholm, Senator, was Inspector of Customs at 
Mobile when he was sent for to come to Montgomery, to take 
a seat in the Court House Senate. He was suspended from 
his office until after the Miller-Martin contest was ended; he 
was then reinstated and drew his pay for the whole period of 
his suspension. 

R. P. Baker, Senator, occupied nearly the same position as 
Chisholm, having no real claim to a seat, and was afterwards 
appointed United States marshal for the Northern District of 
Alabama. 

John Lamb, Representative, received an appointment in 
the Custom House at Mobile. 

Thomas J. Clark, Representative, was afterwards appointed 
to a place in the police of Washington City. 

P. G. Clarke, of the House, was afterwards appointed Uni- 
ted States mail agent. 

Henry Cochran was promised the office of postmaster, after 
he was elected to the House of Representatives, voted for 
Spencer, and was afterwards appointed postmaster at Selma. 

C. H. Davis, of the House, was appointed postmaster at 
Union Springs. 

Green S. W. Lewis, of the House, received the appoint- 
ment of mail agent. 

J. M. Levey, of the House, received the appointment of 
United States gauger at Montgomery. 

C. W. Dustan, of the House, received an appointment in 
the Custom House in Mobile. 

N. S. McAfee, of the House, received the appointment of 
United States District Attorney for the Middle and Northern 
Districts of Alabama. 

George Patterson, of the House, was appointed United 
States mail agent. 

B. R. Thomas, of the House, received the appointment of 
deputy collector of internal revenue for the second district, 
and afterwards revenue agent. 

J. H. Goldsby, of the House, was appointed route agent of 
the Postoffice Department. 



25 

Thomas D. McCaskie, of the House, was appointed weigher 
and gauger in the Custom House. 

Other members of the Court House Legislature have since 
received appointments to important federal offices, but your 
committee are not satisfied that they were conferred under 
any direct bargain with Mr. Spencer. 

Other persons who were assisting Spencer in his election, 
and aiding in the many unworthy schemes by which he se- 
cured the vote of the Court House Legislature, and after- 
wards the fraudulent disposition of the Miller-Martin contest, 
were also rewarded with appointments to federal offices 
through his influence. Amongst these were : 

P. D. Barker who was appointed internal revenue collector 
for 2d district, and J. C. Hendrix who was made an assistant 
in Barker's office. Barker was also appointed Superintend- 
ent of Education in Dallas county, while holding his col- 
lectorship 

Lou. H. Mayer, was appointed collector of internal revenue 
for 1st district. 

Meyer Goldsmith, was reappointed auditor and deputy col- 
lector under J. C. Gooclloe. 

D. C. Whiting was appointed appraiser of merchandise in 
the custom house, and drew his pay, rendering no service. 

James Samuell, appointed receiver at the land office at Mo- 
bile ; Peyton Finley receiver of the land office at Montgom- 
ery ; Jerome J. Hinds, marshal of the Middle and Southern 
Districts of Alabama. 

J. J. Osborne, deputy collector of the 1st district of Ala- 
bama. 

H. A. Candee, deputy collector. 

H. J. Europe, deputy collector. 

Phillip King, deputy collector. 

M. G. Candee, deputy collector. 

M. C. Osborne, special clerk of the Supervisor. 

R. A. Moseley, postmaster at Talladega. 

R. M. Reynolds, collector of the port at Mobile. 

The witnesses generally concur in the statement that Mr. 

4 



26 

Spencer controlled the government patronage in Alabama 
almost exclusively. 

The principal agents and managers of Mr. Spencer, as 
shown by the testimony of Barber, Br ainard and others, were 
J. J. Hinds, D. C. Whiting, H. Bay Mayer, and Lou Mayer, 
and Bobt. Barber. To these he confided more authority to 
make pledges for him and to arrange to place his other 
retainers in the subordinate offices, than to any other per- 
sons. 

He demanded the right to designate every subordinate offi- 
cer and employee in the Custom House, Postoffices, Internal 
Bevenue offices, and other places to which appointments had 
been made under the influence of his patronage, and on sev- 
eral occasions assigned to Hinds and H. Bay Mayer, the duty 
of selecting such employees, and required obedience to their 
orders. 

These persons were associated with Spencer in the most 
intimate manner, and conducted for him, chiefly, all the plans 
by which others were corrupted to do his will and keep him 
in the Senate. 

Hinds has been living with Spencer almost constantly since 
he came to Alabama, and H. Bay Mayer was a large part of 
the time in his company, until he was appointed to a Consul- 
ship in the Dominion of Canada. 

Lou H. Mayer boasts of intimate friendship with Spencer 
and "congeniality of feelings and sentiments." 

That George E. Spencer used money corruptly, and in con- 
siderable sums, to procure his election to the Senate by the 
Court House Legislature, and to influence the Martin-Miller 
contest, and to defeat the election of a Senator by the Gen- 
eral Assembly at the Capitol, is established by the evidence 
of many witnesses, corroborated by evidence of written in- 
struments, and by the opinions and convictions of those of 
his party, who were present in Montgomery, and had good 
opportunity to understand his proceedings and those of his 
friends. 

A full discussion of all the evidence herewith submitted, 
that is relevant to this proposition, would unnecessarily en- 
large this report. 



27 

The money that he thus used was drawn mainly from four 
sources. 

1. The Post-office at Mobile. 

2. The office of Internal Kevenue at Mobile. 

3. The office of Internal Kevenue at Montgomery. 

4. The Treasury of the National Kepublican Executive 
Committee, or the State Republican Executive Committee. 

The testimony of Mr. Mitchell, and the accounts furnished 
by Mr. Campbell, showing the cash dealings of Spencer, 
Hinds and Whiting, with the First National Bank at Mont- 
gomery from the 2f>th of October, 1872, to 5th of December, 
1872, and Hinds dealings from the 10th of December, 1872, 
to the 14th of February, 1873, prove a common purpose ex- 
isting between them in the use, or intention to use, a sum 
amounting in the aggregats to $29,128 00. 

Hinds and Spencer opened their accounts in said Bank on 
the same day, 19th November, which was the day after the 
Court House Legislature assembled, and they and Whiting 
drew out their balances on the same day — the 5th of Decem- 
ber — which was the day after Spencer's election. 

During this time, Whiting a very poor man, had used 
$2,493 75, Hinds had used $2,750 34, and Spencer had used 
$2,000 00. After this and up to the 14th of February, 1873, 
Hinds used $9,450 34. 

None of these persons had any*visible business in Mont- 
gomery that required the use of large sums of money. The 
sums checked out by them were mostly round sums, except 
the balances, and were from $50 up to $1,000 00. They each 
knew the state of the others accounts on the books of the 
bank, and examined them at pleasure, each exhibiting solici- 
tude to know how the accounts of the others stood. 

Hinds' account was again balanced on December 23, 1872, 
and was opened again on the 17th of January, 1873. It 
closed on the 14th of February, 1873, with a check for $109. 

About the middle of January, 1873, when the Martin-Mil- 
ler contest was approaching a termination, Hinds reappeared 
in Montgomery, and told Mr. Mitchell, who was cashier of 
the National Bank, that he wanted a thousand or more dol- 



28 

lars, that he could not tell exactly when he would need it 9 it 
might be the next day or during the week, but when he did 
want it he must have it. He drew two drafts on persons in 
Washington (one of them being Spencer,) for $1,000 each, 
and Mr. Mitchell let him have the money on them. 

Hinds insisted that the names of the parties upon whom 
these drafts were drawn should not appear upon the books of 
the bank, and Mr. Mitchell consented. He also had a dis- 
patch sent from a way station on the railroad advising par- 
ties of the drafts, fearing that the names might be known if 
sent through the Montgomery office. 

This furtive conduct is not consistent with ordinary fair 
dealing with one's own money or credit, and when it is asso- 
ciated with the other facts which show its purpose, no rational 
doubt remains that this money was procured for the purpose 
of being used to corrupt members of the General Assembly. 

John J. Moulton of Mobile, then postmaster, was one of 
the persons who furnished to Spencer and Hinds a large part 
of the money they expended in bribing members of the Gen- 
eral Assembly. 

He had been put in the post-office at Mobile by Spencer's 
influence, to take the place of Mr. Putnam, whom Spencer 
had caused to be removed because he refused to pay tribute 
to Spencer on the demand of H. Bay Mayer. When Moul- 
ton was appointed to office, Spencer knew that he was very 
much embarrassed in his monetary affairs, and that he had 
once made a deficit in his accounts, as money-order clerk un- 
der Putnam, which he afterwards made good. 

A few days before Spencer's election in 1872, Moulton was 
at Montgomery, and saw Spencer. He was active in his sup- 
port of Spencer for the Senate. Moulton then asked of Spen- 
cer the repayment of $10,000. 

He says, " for eighteen months before this, drafts had been 
drawn upon me by different persons for political purposes, at 
Spencer's instance, and in this way I had advanced a large 
amount of money, in which I was assured I would be pro- 
tected by Spencer. It was in this way that the sum had ac- 
cumulated that I told Spencer must be refunded to me. The 
amount I had advanced exceeded $10,000." 



29 

Q. Did he ever deny to you his liability to refund this 
money to you ? 

A. He did not. 

Q. Were any of these drafts drawn by Whiting or Hinds? 

A. They were. 

Q. In the latter part of 1872 did you tell Spencer you were 
broke ? 

A. I think I told him I was bankrupt. 

Q. Did you tell him, or give him to understand, that the 
heavy drafts made upon you was the cause of it ? 

A. Spencer knew it, and always recognized it in his con- 
versations with me. 

In this conversation Moulton told Spencer that he was dis- 
couraged, and would resign unless the money was paid. Spen- 
cer said, " Don't do it." Moulton said he would be compelled 
to do so. Spencer replied, "Don't do it; I'll stand by you. 
I can make it all right in Washington." "He (Spencer) told 
me to wait until he was elected to the Senate, and he would 
have $10,000 left, he thought, and I should have every dollar 
of it." He furthermore said to Moulton, "Don't resign; I 
will stand by you till hell freezes over." 

Spencer had received from Moulton, about 24th November, 
1872, about $5,000 of the sum that had produced such dis- 
tress to Moulton. 

Moulton had used post-office funds to get drafts from T. P. 
Miller & Co., which were used for Spencer, and he knew this; 
and Moulton and Lou H. Meyer had used post-office money 
with Moses S. Foote to get money for Spencer's benefit, and 
upon his written authority. 

He knew that Moulton was in great danger, and attempted 
to soothe him with promises of ten thousand dollars as soon 
as he should be elected to the Senate, and with assurances of 
his power to protect him at Washington with the government. 

On the day of Spencer's election Moulton returned to Mont- 
gomery and asked Spencer to keep his promise. Spencer paid 
him $2,250, in a draft on the National Commercial Bank at 
Mobile, drawn on the 4th December, lb72, by E. K. Mitchell, 
Cashier. The original draft is in evidence. 



30 

After this, Moulton visited Spencer in Washington. Spen- 
cer had taken over $11,000 00 with him to Washington, but 
Moulton did not know it. He suspected it ; and this, in part, 
caused his visit to Washington. 

The Attorney General's proposition for a compromise was 
made on the 11th December, 1872, and it was then evident 
that Spencer could not hold his seat, if the said proposition 
should be accepted, unless he could turn Mr. Martin out of 
the State Senate. 

On Tuesday, the 17th December, 1872, the two legislatures 
met in the Capitol. 

About that time Spencer telegraphed Moulton at Mobile, 
in cypher, to meet Hinds in Montgomery on the next Friday, 
and bring funds. 

Moulton went, and took with him a letter of credit of Thos. 
P. Miller & Co., dated 19th December, 1872, to Farley, Smith 
& Co. of Montgomery, for $2,500, and on the 21st December 
drew for the full amount. On that day Hinds deposited 
$2,000 in the First National Bank at Montgomery. Hinds 
gave Moulton a receipt, dated 21st December, Montgomery, 
for $1,880 on account of Spencer. Moulton also paid for him 
$500 for Senator Glass, $100 for a Democratic member of the 
House, besides other sums, and gave him a draft on Bingham, 
State Treasurer, for $250. 

Spencer knew that Moulton had no other means to raise 
this money than from the post-office, and Mr. Eagan testifies 
that the $2,500 was post-oifice funds, cash taken out of the 
drawer for political purposes, and deposited with Miller & Co. 
to protect their acceptances. 

When Petherbridge, the post-office detective, came down 
on Moulton, about the 10th January, 1873, he (Moulton) drew 
on Spencer for $5,000. The draft was dishonored, and the 
victim of his criminal cruelty and subornation was handed 
over to the law. 

Moulton's wife and friends had to impoverish themselves to 
save him, Lou H. Meyer, though a person in straightened 
circumstances, paid $1,000 of the money ; but this was done 
most likely to save himself from the consequences of his com- 



31 

plicity in the use of post-office money and stamps, and certi- 
fied pay-rolls, (not due by a month,) used by him and Moul- 
ton to secure money to purchase supporters for Spencer in his 
election. 

Moses S. Foote's testimony shows that Moulton, on the 21st 
October, 1872, deposited in his bank $1,240 00 of post-office 
money, in the name of " W. H. Lewis, agent," as collateral to 
a bill for $2,000 at sixty days, which he discounted for Moul- 
ton and Lou H Meyer. 

This paper was extended at maturity. 

Foote states that Moulton and Meyer both informed him 
that the reason for asking the extension was " that Spencer 
had gone back on them, he having told them that $2,500 was 
set apart for political purposes, to carry the State, by the Re- 
publican National Executive Committee, and that they had 
been authorized in anticipation of this amount to make the 
loan, or any money arrangements necessary, and that Spen- 
cer had not provided the means promised, and they therefore 
asked for further time." Meyer stated at the same time, 
complaining of Spencer, "that he (Spencer) knew that Moul- 
ton had used post-office money, and he (Meyer) had pledged 
his wife's jewels, and all the money he could get, as well as 
Revenue Money to pay these accommodations." 

Meyer pledged pay-rolls of his subordinates in the asses- 
sor's office, certified by John T. Foster, Revenue Collector, a 
month before they were due, as collateral for loans, and of- 
fered to pledge postage stamps for other loans. 

When Foote inquired of Foster about this irregularity, and 
asked him what would be the consequences if some of Mey- 
er's subordinates should die before the end of the month, he 
replied that "he and Meyer would have to make it up," "that 
they were riding him to death in this Spencer matter, and 
that he was tired of it and did not intend to submit to it." 

"When Moulton and Meyer came in company to Foote to 
get the $2,000 accommodation, Moulton took a letter from 
his pocket in Meyer's presence, which he said was from Spen- 
cer, authorizing him to make money transactions and pledg- 
ing to them the $2,500. 



32 

On being admonished by Foote that the pledging of certi- 
fied pay-rolls before they were due was unlawful, Meyer re- 
plied "I know what I am doing and have the approval of the 
department, and will be protected." During these transac- 
tions Meyer said to Foote — " That if Grant carried the State, 
Spencer would be elected to the United States Senate, and 
he would then, through Spencer, be appointed Collector of 
Internal Revenue at Mobile, over Dr. Foster, when the office 
of Collector and Assessor of Internal Revenue would be con- 
solidated." Moulton also told Foote that. Meyer would get 
this office, and Meyer got it. 

Meyer says Spencer got him the appointment of Revenue 
Assessor in 1871. "I have always regarded him as one of 
the best friends in the world. I would do as much for him as 
any man in the world," and that he went to Montgomery to 
assist in Spencer's election. 

After proving that Widmer was one of the best officers in 
the country "and a correct man," Meyer was asked this ques- 
tion : " If Widmer were to tell you on his dying bed that he 
had loaned Spencer $5,000 and Spencer were to tell you that 
he had not, which of them would you believe ?" He answered 
I would believe Mr. Spencer." 

Such faith in Spencer in 1875, after the confessions of 
Meyer made to Foote in 1872, furnishes a strong support to 
Meyer's other statement that the ground of their long inti- 
macy was " cougeniality of sentiment and feeling." This can 
scarcely be doubted. The bill discounted for Moulton and 
Meyer by Foote, on 31st October, 1872, matured on 30th De- 
cember, 1872. 

Foote states that this bill was extended. 

Mayer attempts to prove that he saw Spencer hand Moul- 
ton $2,250 00 in money, on 4th December, 1872, but Mr. 
Mitchell's evidence shows that this sum paid on that day was 
in a check on Mobile, and the original check is produced in 
evidence. This check went to replace money taken from the 
cash drawer of the post-office by Moulton and deposited with 
Miller 4 Co. 

Another part of the money used by Spencer, Hinds and 



33 

Whiting was obtained from Francis Widmer, Collector of In- 
ternal Eevenne for the 2d District of Alabama. 

In September, 1873, Widmer, Internal Kevenue Collector at 
Montgomery, was arrested at the instance of the United 
States government for embezzlement in his office. His sure- 
ties on his bond made some examination into his affairs. He 
told Mr. Woolfe, one of the sureties, that he was afraid that 
Beach, one of his deputy collectors, (the same person with 
whom Spencer had attempted to defeat Alexander White, in 
Dallas County,) had been guilty of a default to the amount 
of $6,000, "that his own accounts were short only about 
three or four thousand dollars ; that the amount he was short 
was due him by very influential parties, who would be able to 
pay as soon as he called upon them." " He refused at the time 
to give me the names of the parties who owed him. I offered 
him my assistance in attending to some business in Selma, 
and garnisheed several parties who were bondsmen for Beach. 
Upon my return from Selma, or a short time thereafter, 
Widmer showed me three notes on parties who were owing 
him money ; he stated that with these three notes, and the 
amounts for which the parties in Selma were garnisheed, he 
could make good his accounts." There was one note on J.J. 
Hinds for $2,500 with a credit on the back of it for $900." 
"There was another note made by Hinds and Spencer, either 
payable to Hinds and endorsed by Spencer, or payable to 
Spencer and endorsed by Hinds for $1,800 I think ; I am not 
certain as to the amount. The third note was Strassburger's." 
" He said they were for money loaned. That, occupying his 
position, he was compelled to do more for them than for 
other persons;" "I saw the notes and have no doubt about 
their being genuine documents." " He (Widmer) said he had 
called upon the parties for the money, and at that time he 
had no response, but expected to get the money." 

The yellow fever broke out in Montgomery on 24th Sep- 
tember, lb73, and was a fearful epidemic ; Widmer died of it 
on the 14th October — he had no wife, and was alone in the 
world, only attended occasionally by his white friends, but 
constantly by his colored servant Jackson Morgan, a man of 



34 

good character, and of more than ordinary intelligence. 
Morgan performed the last offices for Widmer, and prepared 
his body for burial. 

He had seen the notes on Spencer and Hinds ; had heard 
"Widmer after his arrest, and during his illness, say they owed 
him enough to settle his accounts, and complained that they 
had not relieved his troubles. He saw Widmer put the notes 
in his inner safe, and put the key in his pocket. This was 
when the XL S. detective was about. 

Immediately after Widmer's death, Morgan took the key 
out of Widmer's pocket and gave it to Fritz, a bailiff or tip- 
staff of the United States district court, who, with his wife, 
lived in the house where Widmer kept his office and apart- 
ments. 

Soon after Widmer's death Fritz told Mr. Hatchett, Wid- 
mer's administrator, and Judge Rice, the attorney of Wid- 
mer's securities, and Mr. Faber and Mr. Goetter, two of his 
sureties, that he had the notes on Spencer and Hinds, and 
one on Strassburger. To some of them he set up a claim to 
these notes, as having been given by Widmer to his wife. 

Fritz confesses to having seen Hinds in Montgomery about 
a week after Widmer's death. This was in the worst time of 
the yellow fever epidemic, when the city was almost depopula- 
ted. Hinds then lived at Decatur, Ala. After this, when 
Hatchett sued Fritz for these notes, he swore he had never 
seen them ! 

Widmer, shortly before his death, told Wade McBryde — 
" My head has been cut off ; but mine is not the last one that 
is going to come off. These damned theives have got money 
from me and at the proper time I will expose them all, from 
Senator down." He adds: "Widmer was a republican." 

Your committee can not resist the conclusion that Hinds 
got those notes when he braved the yellow fever to visit Mont- 
gomery, soon after Widmer's death, without having any other 
object in coming. Widmer had no visible property, from 1865 
up to the time of his death. He had kept, in partnership 
with others, a small lager beer saloon at the time he was ap- 
poited a collector of internal revenue, which was done through 
Spencer's influence. He then gave up his saloon. 



35 

The note of Spencer for $1,800, and of Hinds for a balance 
of $1,600, corresponded nearly with the amount to the credit 
of Whiting from October 26, 1872, to December 5th, in the 
First National Bank of Montgomery, viz : $3,493.75. 

This was covered with a very thin disguise on the 5th De- 
cember, 1872, when, on the same day, he deposited $1,000 
and drew it out in a single check for $1,000. This was scarcely 
a business transaction ; it was more probably a manoeuvre to 
cover the fact that he had gotten his former deposits from 
some improper source. 

The question of the precise manner in which Mr. Spencer 
used the money he had thus procured, in securing his election, 
or the persons to whom he paid it, is naturally involved in 
some obscurity and doubt ; because it is not to be expected 
that persons engaged in the schemes of bribery will leave be- 
hind them any evidences of their guilt which they can possi- 
bly obliterate. In all courts, and in the most solemn issues, 
the rule is accepted that where a conspiracy is established by 
the evidence, the statements and confessions of one conspira- 
tor, made at the time the offense is being committed, or while 
preparations are being made to consummate it, are evidence 
against the co-conspirators. This rule authorizes your com- 
mittee to consider the statements and acts of various persons 
as evidence against Spencer. 

His participation in these crimes was intended to be con- 
cealed, but the devices have failed of their purpose. He has 
betrayed himself in many ways, and especially through his 
co-conspirators. The corruption of members of the legisla- 
ture by promises of Federal offices, and the abuse of his sen- 
atorial influence and powers by promises and bargains in ref- 
erence to other offices, has been directly shown by many wit- 
nesses. 

This adds much to the credibility of the other proposition, 
that Spencer used money also to purchase the votes of mem- 
bers of the Court-house Legislature. A Senator who would 
prostitute his high office to the purpose of securing a re-election 
by promises of Federal offices and employment, would not pro- 
bably hesitate to use money to the same end. Moulton testifies 



36 

that this was the purpose for which money was demanded of 
him. That he furnished Hinds $500 to pay Senator Glass, 
$100 to pay a Democratic member of the House to absent 
himself from the Assembly at the Capitol, and other sums to 
be paid to other members. 

When it was supposed that Jones (Senator from Lowndes) 
would abandon the Court-house body and repair, with his 
followers, to the Capitol, Spencer, through his managers, au- 
thorized Barber to offer Jones $2,500 to prevent his leaving 
the Court-house body. 

A guard watched the suspected members from Lowndes all 
the night of the 3d of December, 1872. A pedestrian was 
sent on foot, by night, to Lowndes county, and paid $50, to 
bring L. Bryan to Montgomery to control the supposed bolt- 
ers of the Lowndes county delegation. Carson and Maull, 
two colored members from Lowndes, took breakfast with Spen- 
cer early in the morning of the day of Spencer's election, at 
the Madison House. Barber told them Spencer had made 
up his mind to give each of them an office. " Spencer was 
present, and promised each of them a route agency on rail- 
roads." 

Hinds told Barber that he had "fixed Mancil," a democrat 
at the Capitol, by increasing the number of trips per week on 
some postal route that Mancil had as contractor or sub-con- 
tractor, thereby increasing his pay from three to six hundred 
dollars. 

Governor Smith heard Hinds say he had "fixed" a demo- 
cratic Senator, "so that he would not be present to vote on 
the Miller-Martin contest." 

W. Y. Turner proves that Hinds had money which he dealt 
out freely to the colored members of the Court-house body. 
Men came to him who had no money ; he referred them to 
Hinds, and they came back with ten and twenty dollar bills. 

" It was generally understood that Hinds was Spencer's 
cashier, and any member that needed money could get it from 
him." " I saw Calvin Goodloe, on one occasion, bring a thou- 
sand dollars into the room of Mr. Spencer while I was there, 
and paid it to Spencer. Mr. Spencer seemed disappointed 



37 

that it was not two thousand, and stated as much. Spencer 
said that he had spent two or three thousand dollars already. 
Goodloe said he would get another thousand for him. This 
was while the election of Spencer was pending in the Court- 
house Assembly." 

"I inferred, from what was said and from what I knew of 
the current history of the campaign, that the money was used 
for securing Spencer's election to the U. S. Senate." 

John Cashin says — -"On or about the day of Spencer's 
election, Jones (colored Senator from Lowndes) came to me 
to get a hundred dollar bill changed. He called me off into 
a side door at my place of business and pulled out three one 
hundred dollar bills from his vest pocket. I said to him, 
'what is that?' He repied, 'This is Spencer,' at the same 
time holding the money up in his hand. He told me at the 
same time not to say anything about the money he had, as 
he wanted to give Carson $50 and Maull $25. He said he 
could control their votes at any time." 

" It was understood that each one of them was to get one 
hundred dollars, and he did not want them to know how much 
he had got." 

"I have also spoken several times to Jones about this mat- 
ter. I subsequently changed each one of the hundred dollar 
bills." 

" It was the common talk and inquiry, * How much did you 
get?' This talk was among the members of the Court-house 
Assembly, and others seeking positions through Spencer. I 
frequently heard it said, now is your time ; if you don't get it 
before the election, you will not get any thing.' Jones told 
me he got money from Spencer for himself, Maull and Car- 
son." 

Barber says it was understood that Jones was to get $300 
for remaining in the Court-house body and supporting Spen- 
cer. 

James S. Perrin testifies that he saw Gilmore, Senator from 
Sumter, come out of Hinds' room with $300, which he said 
was for Senator Black, who threatened to leave his seat in 
the Court-house body ; that Johnson, Walker and Goldsby, 



"38 

members of the House, got money from Hinds ; and that 
Mancil had an interview with Spencer with reference to his 
leaving the Capitol Assembly to defeat a quorum there. 

It was a part of Spencer's plan to defeat a quorum in the 
House at the capitol on the 3d day of December, 1872, to 
prevent that body from electing a U. S. Senator. To effect 
this, bribery and drugging were resorted to. The expenses 
of Peddy, a member of the House from Lee county, were 
paid by Charles Pelham, a part of the money having been 
furnished by Spencer, through Brainard, and he absented 
himself. Mancil was procured to absent himself by the 
means already stat-d, and Stribling, a democrat from Wash- 
ington county, was enticed into a gambling saloon and made 
drunk, and dosed with opium or some other powerful nar- 
cotic until his life was nearly destroyed to secure his absence 
from the House of Representatives at the capitol. 

A friend of Spencer had first offered Stribling a large sum 
to induce him to quit the Capitol Legislature and join the 
body at the Court-house. This he indignantly refused. 

James S. Perrin, informing Hinds of his purpose, got $20 
from him and lost it at cards with Stribling. This was in- 
tended "as a bait," to lure him into deeper play. These facts 
were stated to Hinds. On the evening of the 2d of Decem- 
ber, Lou Meyer, George Ellison, and James S. Perrin went 
up to the top story of the Madison House, Hinds came up 
where they were and gave Lou Meyer $100, who gave it to 
George Ellison, remarking to him, that "if these fellows don't 
work Stribling nobody can." They then went to the Rialto, 
a drinking and gambling saloon, and Perrin becoming 
alarmed withdrew from the party. The others went to play 
with Stribling, They drugged the liquor with a narcotic, and 
he was found there next morning alone, in a condition des- 
cribed thus by Dr. Freeman : " I found him with all the 
symptoms of poisoning with opium, and considered him in a 
dangerous condition, and treated him accordingly." For two 
days afterwards Stribling was incapable of either mental or 
physical exertion, and he had narrowly escaped death. 

Another means of influencing members of the legislature 



39 

and others to support Spencer for the Senate, was a free 
drinking saloon kept in one of the rooms comprising his 
apartments, in the Madison House, and under his immediate 
control. M. D. Brainard, who claims that he first projected 
the plan of a separate legislature at the Court-house, pre- 
sided as tapster at this bar, and dispensed wines, liquors, and 
cigars, without charge to Spencer's friends. Spencer could 
not witness such generous liberality without emotion, aud 
prevailed on Brainard to accept from him $100 to help pay 
expenses. The negroes also drank and smoked there until 
it was supposed to be better to assign them to a separate 
place where they could more fully enjoy an exclusive privil- 
ege of drinking with their own color. Accordingly Spencer 
gave to W. V. Turner plenary authority to procure such a 
place and treat Spencer's colored friends at his expense. 
John Cashin's saloon was selected. Champagne, liquors, 
cigars, shrimps and other luncheon was freely distributed so 
that, in a day before the election the bill run up to $44.85. 
This was charged to Spencer and the bill sent to him, and he 
paid it. On the night before the election (while a portion of 
his people were standing guard over the delegation from 
Lowndes,) and on the day of the election, the colored free 
drinkers and free-lunches of the Court-house assembly, ran 
up another bill against Spencer at Cashin's saloon to the 
amount of $162.00. After the election Spencer refused to pay 
this bill, repudiated Turner's authority to contract the debt, 
and advised Cashin to indict him and put him in the peni- 
tentiary for obtaining his goods under false pretences. 

He abused Turner for "a damned dead beat," and treated 
him otherwise with dintinguished contempt. Spencer could 
scarcely have felt real animosity towards Turner, for he wrote 
Turner a letter on the 7th of October, 1874, in which he ad- 
dressed him as " My dear Sir," asked his assistance as a stump 
speaker in the election of Mr. Doster as circuit judge, and for 
"our ticket generally," and subscribed himself as "Truly your 
friend, George E. Spencer." 

It is not because Mr. Spencer refused to pay such a bill to 
such a person, or under such circumstances, that your com- 
mittee call attention to these facts ; but, in their opinion, such 



40 



a proceeding in a Senatorial election, at least by one then 
holding the office and power of a Senator is a gross scandal 
on that high office; and the influence thus obtained over col- 
ored men, who have but recently attained to the capacity to 
represent large constituencies, in the legislature, and are un- 
duly liable to temptation, is dangerous to the great interests 
of the State, and to public morals. 

Hinds and Moulton had a conversation, (probably the same 
that Governor Smith heard) relative to an agreement between 
Senator Edwards and Glass to pair off in the Miller-Martin 
contest, in which Hinds said (speaking of Edwards) "he is 
fixed, I will answer for that." Moulton states that at the 
time said convesration occurred it was of vital importance to 
Spencer that Miller should be seated, "Spencer told me in 
Washington that it must be done — that his seat depended 
upon it — that it was of vital importance and was the key to 
the situation." "He said his friends in the United States 
Senate regarded it as necessary, (and so advised him,) to seat 
Miller, and if it was not done it was doubtful whether he 
could retain his seat." The same view of this matter was 
taken by other very prominent members ol the Spencer par- 
ty. Hinds was returned to Montgomery and got $1,990 from 
Mr. Mitchell, of which $1,000 was furnished by Spencer di- 
rectly, and doubtless the balance indirectly. This was on 
17th January, 1873. 

The Senate, under the Attorney-General's plan, was demo- 
cratic by one majority. All the officers elected by the Sen- 
ate were democrats. To meet this state of case the plan was 
devised by Hinds, Betts, Pelham, Whiting and others, to get 
an agreement between Edwards (democrat,) and Glass (re- 
publican,) to pair off in the Miller-Martin contest, for ten 
days, and then to have Glass to break his promise. That he 
did so in the most shameless manner is beyond question. 
Glass and Edwards left Montgomery at the same time, from 
the same depot, but on different roads, for the avowed pur- 
pose of going home. Edwards lived 150 miles from Mont- 
gomery, in a place difficult of access, and remote from rail- 
roads or telegraphs ; Glass lived within 40 miles of Mont- 



41 

gomery, at Tuskegee, to which place there was a line of rail- 
way. Glass, in charge of Betts, went a few miles out of 
Montgomery, left the train, got into a close carriage, returned 
to Montgomery, secreted himself in a room in the Madison 
House, prepared for him by Hinds and Betts, and remained 
secreted, with a guard over him, until the moment the vote 
was to be taken in the Senate on the Miller-Martin contest. 

While so secreted his presence in Montgomery was not 
generally known to many of the leading republicans, and the 
democrats had no suspicion of it. It was a secret in the 
keeping of Spencer's managers. McKinstry knew it and vis- 
ited him in his place of seclusion, as Glass testifies. He was 
the presiding officer of the re-organized Senate, aud knew 
the purpose of Glass' concealment. Glass got his leave of 
absence on the 28th January for three days, which on the 
next day was enlarged to ten days, but was not entered on 
the journals. But on the oOth January, at 12 o'clock, the 
Senate took up the reports on the Miller-Martin case, and the 
question was put on the motion to substitute the minority 
report for the resolutions acccompanying the report of the 
majority of the committee. At that moment Betts had a 
close carriage at the door of the Madison House, and upon 
an agreed signal being given him from the balcony of the 
capitol, he put Glass in the carriage and took him to the 
capitol. 

Brainard describes Glass' entry to the Senate chamber as 
follows : He knew that Glass had been secreted in Mont- 
gomery for the purpose of breaking his engagement with Ed- 
wards. He says — "It had been intimated to me that Mr. 
Glass would arrive from Macon before the vote was taken in 
the Martin-Miller contest. I also had hints that Mr. Glass 
was about the capitol keeping out of the way. While the 
ayes and noes were being called Mr. Glass dropped in with a 
cotton umbrella under his arm, an old grey shawl over his 
shoulders, and a lean carpet-bag in his hand. He was dusty, 
and had the appearance of having just come off a journey. I 
went to the capitol to enjoy the tableau and was not disap- 
pointed." This statement from one of Spencer's "mana- 
5 



42 

gers," is a fitting introduction to a statement of another part 
of the same scene from another. 

Robert Barber, the clerk of the House, and one of Spen- 
cer's most influential managers, says as follows : After stating 
that in a caucus of the managers for Spencer it was decided 
upon that Miller was to be seated, upon the consolidation of 
the two bodies, in his contest with Martin, he was asked the 
question " How was this to be accomplished?" 

A. We were to sustain Lieutenant Governor McKinstry in 
his rulings, whatever decisions he might make." 

" 2. State fully how McKinstry's rulings were to be sus- 
tained ; by what persons, and by what means." 

"A. To carry out the plan agreed upon, and to get Mc- 
Kinstry to rule so as to seat Miller before an absent Senator 
(Edwards) returned, it was thought necessary for McKinstry 
to rule so as to cut off debate and secure a final vote. It was 
thought, if McKinstry so ruled, that the democratic members 
would bolt, or withdraw from the Senate, or have a fight. To 
provide for the latter contingency, picked men were procured, 
and were by agreement in the Senate Chamber, in the lobby." 

2. "Who were these men?" 

"A. W. H. Betts, Charles Pelham (then a circuit judge), 
Sam. Oliver, M. G. Candee, Milo Barber, J. J. Hinds, and a 
rough from Georgia whose name I do not know, and some five 
or six others whose names I can not remember ; some from 
Mobile." 

Thus it is proven that McKinstry's rulings, which are de- 
nounced by every respectable Republican in the State, were 
pre-arranged by a caucus of Spencer's "managers," viz: C. 
0. Sheets, Charles Pelham, W. H. Betts, J. J. Hinds, R. P. 
Baker, D. C. Whiting, and Robert Barber. They were con- 
ceived in the most deliberate fraud, and sustained by a picked 
crowd of men provided for the purpose. McKinstry, while 
he supposed he was backed by this posse, defied, bullied, and 
threatened Senators on the floor, whose appeal to the Senate 
he refused to put, and said to the Secretary, when called on 
by Senator Parks to put the motion, he dared not put it to 
the Senate ; and for the purpose of intimidating Senators, he 



43 

made a demonstration as if for battle, by emptying the water 
from a heavy pitcher, and opening a drawer in his desk, to 
intimate that he was prepared with deadly weapons. A wise 
forbearance on the part of Senators alone prevented a scene 
of violence and bloodshed. 

Barber thus further states the plan agreed upon which this 
combined demonstration of force and fraud was designed to 
consummate : " It was generally understood amongst ' the 
managers' that Senator Glass was to pair off with Senator 
Edwards in the vote in the Miller-Martin contest. That Glass 
was to go over to the depot with Edwards, and return back to 
the city seemingly or apparently unknown to Edwards — the 
idea being to make outsiders believe that they both left the 
same day." 

" They did both go to the depot on the same day and at 
the same time." 

"Glass returned without the knowledge of Edwards, and 
was secreted in a room in the Madison House." 

" To give Glass an excuse for breaking his pledge with Sen- 
ator Edwards, I served a subpoena on him which was given 
me by Charles Pelham to execute on him as a witness in some 
case in which Pelham was an attorney. I went to the Madi- 
son House to execute this writ, and found R. P. Baker door- 
keeper for Glass. I asked him to execute the subpoena by 
handing it to Glass, which he did." 

" Glass was kept out of sight until the vote was being taken 
in the said Martin-Miller contest. He was informed by signal 
from the front of the capitol the very moment his presence 
was required. He appeared in the Senate in time, and did 
vote for seating Miller. I understood he was to be paid $300 
or $500 for breaking faith with Edwards." 

It is needless to pursue this matter any further. Barber 
and Glass concur in all the material facts touching this dis- 
graceful fraud. Glass denies that he received any money. 

The value of this denial, on such a subject, as contrasted 
with the other evidence by which the fact of bribery is strongly 
indicated, will be more apparent when we remember that, at 
the close of his deposition, he states that what he said to the 



44 

committee, the moment before he was sworn, was all false, 
and was so stated because he was not under oath. 

The Senate arraigned him at the last session for these 
crimes, and he resigned to escape the investigation. 

Recurring to the fact that the two organizations, each claim- 
ing to be the General Assembly, existed in Alabama in No- 
vember and December, 1872, your committee deem it their 
duty briefly to examine some of the evidence, submitted here- 
with, which they think bears upoo the question of the legality 
of the two bodies. 

Your committee are firmly convinced that the lawfulness of 
either of the two bodies, claiming to be the legislature of Ala- 
bama, must be determined by the solution of the question, 
which body most nearly conformed to the Constitution and 
laws of the State, in the credentials of its membership and 
in its organization ; and that, judged by these tests, the As- 
sembly at the Capitol was the lawful Legislature of the State. 
Governor Parsons, who was the Speaker of the House in the 
Court-house Assembly, testifies to the opinion that the As- 
sembly at the Capitol was the regular and lawful General As- 
sembly of Alabama from the time it was organized until Gover- 
nor Lindsay went out of office. 

This opinion he held at the time the Court-house Assembly 
elected him Speaker, which was six days before Lindsay's 
term expired. He was, by common consent, the most impor- 
tant and influential person concerned in the Court-house As- 
sembly. 

Without him, that organization could never have been made 
or sustained. He led the desperate emeute against civil gov- 
ernment in Alabama, to gratify a too earnest desire for the 
domination of the Republican Party. 

The Court-house assemblage was organized, not because of 
any necessity, but for party purposes, and as an experiment, 
in the hope that Governor Lewis, when he should be inaugu- 
rated, would recognize that body as the Legislature of Ala- 
bama. Governor Parsons further states his opinion, that the 
recognition by Lewis of the Court-house body destroyed the legal- 
ity of the Legislature at the Capitol, and established the Court- 



45 

house body as the lawful Legislature ; and this is the legal foun- 
dation on which this revolution in the State government was 
rested. 

Your committee do not find it necessary to make any argu- 
ment to sustain the proposition that the Governor of Ala- 
bama can not, at his pleasure, make a Legislature by his re- 
cognition of it, or destroy another by withholding such recog- 
nition. 

The Constitution confines the legislative power to a separ- 
ate body of magistracy, and makes it, in this respect, entirely 
independent of the execvtive department. 

But such was the opinion of the leaders of the Court-house 
body, and it prevailed to the overthrow, for a time, of consti- 
tutional government in Alabama, and to the disturbance of 
the peace of the State, to an extent never before experienced 
by our people. 

The leaders of the Court-house body were incited to this 
movement through partizan zeal, and claimed that it was nec- 
essary to enable the Eepublican party to enjoy the fruits of a 
victory gained in a popular election. 

This was not a justifiable reason or motive for a proceeding 
so harsh, and so clearly opposed to the laws and Constitution 
of Alabama. There was a clear and easy way provided by 
law to settle these questions, and the law should have pre- 
vailed. 

The law is always entitled to the respect of all the citizens 
of the State. These laws and this Constitution were in 
fact enacted by the Eepublican party; but by whatsoever 
party they were enacted, obedience to them was due from 
every citizen, and especially from those who claimed the power 
to legislate for the people. 

No political party can have claims to power, or to the hon- 
ors and emoluments of office, that are paramount to the duty 
of obedience to the laws of the land, particularly in the deli- 
cate matter of transmitting the powers of the State govern- 
ment lawfully, regularly, and peacefully from the hands of one 
set of officers to those of another, in conformity to the choice 
of the people, as expressed in the elections. 



46 

From the testimony of Gov. Parsons, it is obvious that the 
ruling motive in the project to organize a separate Legislature 
at the Court-house was to secure to the Republican party the 
organization of the two houses of the General Assembly. 
"Whether or not his fears of losing this advantage were well 
founded, the evil consequences of a revolution in the State at 
that time were too serious to be balanced against the mere 
danger of losing a United States Senator to a political party, 
or of losing any power or patronage it might otherwise exer- 
cise. 

It was not a just view of the subject to assume that any 
body of representatives would defraud their colleagues of the 
right to seats in the General Assembly, when those rights 
were legally established. 

The apprehensions expressed by Mr. Parsons that a Dem- 
ocratic organization of the General Assembly would result in 
the adoption of a new constitution, in which the rights of col- 
ored people would be abridged or destroyed, have been refu- 
ted in the most unquestionable manner. The immense vote 
for the ratification of the constitution, ordained by a conven- 
tion of whom nine-tenths were Democrats, includes a large 
number of Republicans, black and white, and is the best evi- 
dence of the justice of the provisions of the instrument, and 
of the fallacy of Gov. Parson's apprehensions. 

There was no necessity for the organization of the body 
that met at the Court-house in November, 1872. It placed 
the good and law-abiding people of the State in the power of 
the worst class. It was the only plan by which George E. 
Spencer could gain the mastery over the better men of his 
own party. To this extent it succeeded, and some of the 
most respected and influential men of the Republican Party 
in Alabama, have testified in substance that while Spencer 
was not in fact the choice of his party, his power to defeat its 
legislative organization, and his known willingness to do so if 
he could procure an election by the Democratic party, com- 
pelled his toleration, and gained for him the support of men, 
who, under other circumstances, would have spurned his 
claims to a seat in the Senate. 



47 % 

It was not true that the Democratic party sought an alli- 
ance with him, or would for any consideration have elected 
him to the Senate ; but he contrived to give currency to such 
an opinion, and thereby forced his party to nominate him for 
the Senate. The evidence in the case shows, in the opinion 
of the committee, that the body by which he was elected was 
not a legislature. 

During the election of the members to the legislature he 
used means to secure to himself their votes, that abused the 
army, the post-office, and the revenue departments of the 
Government. He brought the evils of war upon the people ; 
caused them to fly from their homes, and to abstain from 
voting. 

He prostituted his office to the purposes of bargainings 
and bribery to secure votes for his re-election. He corrupted 
United States officials, for whom he had procured federal ap- 
pointments, and forced his appointees, under threats of 
removal from office, to pay money, and, some of them, to 
commit high crimes to obtain money to assist him in his elec- 
tion. He caused men to be appointed to sinecure positions 
in the custom-house, post-offices, and the offices of collectors 
of internal revenue, with the intent and understanding that, 
while in office, they would not be required to render any ser- 
vice to the Government, but would get their pay ; and, while 
so paid, they would employ their time in securing pledges of 
votes and influence to re-elect him to the Senate. 

He paid, and caused to be paid money to members of the 
Court-house Assembly, to secure their votes for him. 

He paid, and caused to be paid, money to members of the 
Legislature to a defeat a quorum at the capitol, and thereby 
to prevent the election of a Senator by that body, and his 
most trusted agent, J. J. Hinds, caused a member of that 
body to be drugged and almost killed to prevent his attend- 
ance at the capitol. 

He dealt in the offices of the United States as merchandise 
to secure money, and to gain votes in his re-election to the 
Senate. His managers, with his concurrence, caused a State 
Senator, for a money consideration, to break his pledge of 



48 

honor with another Senator, having pre-arranged the scheme, 
and thereby attempted to secure his seat in the Senate of the 
United States. 

Through his said managers he procured the presiding offi- 
cer of the Senate to connive at this fraud, and to rule, in vio- 
lation of all parliamentary law and usage, so as to unseat a 
Senator elected by the people, and to seat in his place a par- 
tizan of Spencer, who was not elected by the people, and held 
no certificate of election. 

He caused the lobby of the Senate to be filled with armed 
retainers to overawe Senators on the floor, and to sustain by 
force and violence what he had achieved by fraud. 

He used his powers and influences, and the money he con- 
trolled through his position as a Senator to debauch men in 
office, and out of office, so that in his conduct he was work- 
ing evil continually. 

Your committee further ask the action of the General As- 
sembly upon this report, and that the Memorial to be 
addressed to the Senate of the United States shall be based 
upon that action, and that the Commitee be allowed further 
time to consider said Memorial in connection with the action 
of the General Assembly, and to report the same. 

W. G. Little, Je., Chm'n. 
Wi. H. Paeks, 

On the part of the Senate. 
Thos. H. Peice, 
Leeoy Beewee, 
D. E. Coon, 

On the part of the House . 



Decatue, Ala., Sept. 4th, 1872. 
Hon, W. V. Turner, Wetumpka, Ala. : 

My Deae Sie — I am just leaving for New York to attend a 
meeting of the Nat. Ex. Committee. Collector Miller positive- 
ly told me he would recommend you for an inspectorship in 
the Custom-house. Why he has not done so is more than I 
can tell. He worries me nearly to death by making promises 
he does not [fulfill]. I can't stand it much longer. Enclosed 
I send you a money order for $30 ; would send you more if I 



49 

had it to spare. I have sent your letter to Miller, with one of 
my own, and have asked the old man what he means by mak- 
ing promises that he does not keep, and if he fails, you shall 
have something else. I hope you will keep a sharp lookout 
in Elmore and Autauga. 

In great haste, your Mend, 

Geo. E. Spencer. 
I will be in Montgomery on the 23d and would like to meet 
you there. 

Washington, September 14, 1872. 
My Dear Sir : Your confirmation as inspector of customs 
was forwarded to Collector Miller yesterday, at $4 per diem 
pay. Go at once to Mobile, be sworn in, and apply for leave 
of absence until after the election, which Collector Miller will 
arrange for you. Show him this letter ; he will understand it. 
In haste, truly yours. 

Geo. E. Spencer. 
Hon. W. V. Turner, Wetumpka, Ala. 

Decatur, Ala., Oct. 19th, 1872. 
My Dear Sir : I have received all your letters ; until after 
the election, I have no time to answer letters; I have not one 
day out of twenty, and then have a bushel of letters to write 
and answer, and can only give attention to the most pressing. 
When this " cruel war is o'er " I will promptly answer the 
letter of all my friends. I asked Captain Whiting to send 
you to Macon and Russell counties, and hope he has done 
so. Please look out for my interests wherever you go, and 
believe me to be your friend, 

Geo. E. Spencer. 

United States Senate, 

December 16th, 1872. 
Dear Sir : Yours of 9th at hand. I have just mailed a let- 
ter to Collector Miller, requesting your payment and reten- 
tion in Custom-house, in positive terms. 
I hope there will be no further trouble. 
Truly yours, 

Geo, E. Spencer. 
Hon. Wm. Y. Turner, Wetumpka, Ala. 

Washington, D. C, Oct. 7th, 1874. 
My Dear Sir : I wish you would do me the personal favor 
to go to Lowndes county, and take the stump for Mr. Doster, 
and our ticket generally. You can do good service there, and 



50 

it is very important that Doster should be elected. Your 
prompt action in this behalf will be appreciated by. 

Truly your friend, 

Geo. E. Spencee. 
Hon. W. V. Turner, Montgomery, Ala. 

[Private.] Decatur, Ala., Oct. 16th, 1872. 

Dear Barber : I have just returned home from West Ala- 
bama, and find that Whiting has gone to New York, and has 
left word for me to go to Montgomery ; I cannot for two or 
three days leave here. I wish you would write me the news 
what Whiting has gone to New York for? And the pros- 
pects, etc., etc. Write me a long letter by return mail, and 
tell me all that has occurred. Was Stanwood beaten in 
Lowndes? I have heard nothing in a week. Have you 
heard of any troops having been ordered to the State ? Can't 
you manage to get White off the Legislative Ticket in Dallas? 
Parsons has a deep laid scheme to elect himself, and has gone 
to Nsw York to try and raise money to be used in the Legis- 
lature. I have news direct from him. See Beach and Coon 
and urge them to see that White is taken down. Be sure 
and write me everything that is going on. 

In haste, sincerely yours, 

Geo. E. Spencer. 

Decatur, Ala., Oct. 22d, 1872. 

My Dear Barber : I have just returned from Louisville, 
where I have been to see General Terry about troops for Ala- 
bama. I have had a company of Cavalry sent to Livingston, 
a detachment to Pickens county ; a company of Infantry to 
Eutaw ; a company to Demopolis, and a company to Seals' 
Station, Russell county ; also, a squadron of cavalry to report 
to Marshal Thomas, at Huntsville. I wish Randolph, Dep- 
uty U. S. Marshal, would use the company at Opelika in 
making arrests in Tallapoosa, Randolph and Cleburne, as 
suggests. I will be in Montgomery Thursday morn- 
ing to attend the meeting of the State Committee. I would 
go sooner, but cannot, as it is important I should stay here 
to-morrow. 

I wish you would go to Talladega and block that game ; I 
must not, however, be known in the matter. The troops men- 
tioned above will all be in their respective places in two days 
from now ; some have already arrived. 

In haste, truly yours, 

Geo. E. Spencer. 



MEMORIAL. 

To the Honorable the Senate of the United States: 

The memorial of the General Assembly of the State of 
Alabama respectfully invites the attention of your honorable 
body to the condition in which the State of Alabama stands, 
in its representation upon the floor of the Senate of the Uni- 
ted States. 

Your memorialists, the General Assembly of Alabama, re- 
spectfully represent to your honorable body that George E. 
Spencer, who now sits as one of the Senators from Alabama 
for the term beginning on the 4th day of March, 1873, has 
not been elected either by the concurrent or the joint vote of 
the Senate and House of Representatives which form the legis- 
lature of the State of Alabama, and therefore is not entitled 
to hold the seat claimed by him. 

Your memorialists do not now question the propriety of the 
decision of the Senate in recognizing the right of Mr. Spen- 
cer to take the seat of Senator from Alabama on the 4th day 
of March, 1873, by virtue of the certificate of his election 
which he presented under the hand of the Governor and the 
great seal of the State. That document on its face entitled 
him to the seat, and authorized him in all respects to exercise 
the functions of a Senator, until its validity was successfully 
questioned. 

While your memorialists do not question the decision of 
your honorable body in seatiDg Mr. Spencer, the State has 
never conceded his election, or his right to represent it in the 
Senate ; and as a sense of duty they owed to the people of 
the State, at the last General Assembly of Alabama, the ses- 
sion of 1874-5, the Senate and House of Representatives 
adopted the following resolutions : 

" Whereas, in the opinion of the General Assembly of Ala- 
bama, Hon. George E. Spencer does not rightfully occupy a 
seat in the Senate of the United States, as a Senator from 
Alabama ; 



52 

" Be it resolved by the House of Representatives, the Senate 
concurring, That a joint committee, to consist of two Senators 
and three members of the House of Representatives, be ap- 
pointed to investigate, examine and report to the two houses 
of the General Assembly the facts relating to his alleged elec- 
tion as Senator, and the means by which such election was 
procured, and his credentials as a Senator were obtained. 

" Resolved 2. That said committee, or a majority of them, 
may sit during the session of the General Assembly, and dur- 
ing the recess, at any place in this State, and shall have au- 
thority to send for persons and papers, and to call witnesses 
before them to be examined on oath, and to employ a clerk to 
keep the record and proceedings of the committee. 

" Resolved 3. That said committee report with all convenient 
speed a memorial to be addressed by the General Assembly 
to the Senate of the United States touching the claims of 
George E. Spencer to a seat in that body as a Senator from 
Alabama, and shall report to the two houses the evidence 
taken under these resolutions." 

In accordance with said resolutions a joint committee was 
appointed by the Senate and House of Representatives for 
the purposes expressed therein, and in the recess of the Legis- 
lature proceeded to examine witnesses and take their deposi- 
tions in writing ; which, with the report of said committee 
adopted by the General Assembly of Alabama, is herewith 
(with this memorial) presented to your honorable body for its 
information, and as a denial of right, as against the presump- 
tive evidence offered by Mr. Spencer, to the seat occupied by 
him. 

Your memorialists do not ask, that upon any investigation 
your honorable body may order of the conduct of George E. 
Spencer, you will confine said examination to the testimony 
submitted herewith. Notwithstanding Mr Spencer had full 
opportunity to cross-examine said witnesses, and to introduce 
any testimony in his favor to explain or rebut their evidence, 
or to be represented in person, or by counsel, before said in- 
vestigating committee. Your memorialists do, however, re- 
spectfully ask that your honorable body will examine the re- 



53 

port and evidence herewith submitted with this memorial. 
The evidence thus taken establishes a state of facts that makes 
it necessary that the State of Alabama should vindicate her 
right to be represented in the Senate of the United States, by 
a person chosen by a body, and in a manner that is legal, and 
not by means that defy the laws, and by a body that was rev- 
olutionary; and further, the facts established make it neces- 
sary that the State should vindicate her honor against the im- 
putation of being represented in the Senate of the United 
States by a person whose alleged election was procured by 
corrupt practices, which are scandalous to the dignity of the 
State. 

Upon the facts presented in said report and accompanying 
evidence, which, in the opinion of the General Assembly, will 
be strengthened by a further examination of witnesses and 
documentary evidence. 

Your memorialists, the General Assembly of Alabama, sub- 
mit most respectfully to your honorable body the following 
propositions, touching the alleged election of George E. Spen- 
cer, and his fitness to represent the State of Alabama in the 
Senate of the United States, and respectfully ask the consid- 
eration thereof, viz : 

1. The means which he used (while he was a Senator of the 
United States) in attempting to secure the election of a ma- 
jority of the Legislature that would support him for re-elec- 
tion to the Senate. 

2. That the body by which George E. Spencer claims to 
have been elected to the Senate of the United States was not 
in fact or in law the General Assembly of Alabama, at the 
time of the election of George E. Spencer, and never was. 
There never was a quorum in the Senate that voted for said 
Spencer, and the records and journals of the General Assem- 
bly show that fact. The body that voted for Spencer was or- 
ganized as a party necessity, and to elect Spencer. 

3. By unlawful and corrupt practices, and by bargains made 
by Geo. E. Spencer and other persons, with his knowledge and 
approval, both before and at the time of his alleged election, 
with members of the body by which he claims to have been 



54 

elected, he procured the influence and votes of members of 
said body for the office of Senator of the United States. 

4. That, being a Senator at the time of his alleged re-elec- 
tion to the Senate of the United States, the said George E. 
Spencer corruptly used the influence, power and patronage of 
his said office to procure influence, assistance and votes from 
members of said body, by which he claims to have been re- 
elected to the Senate of the United States on the 3d day of 
December, 1872. 

5. That by like fraudulent and corrupt practices, and to de- 
feat the election of a Senator by the General Assembly of 
Alabama at the time appointed by law, the said George E. 
Spencer, and others by his concurrence or connivance, did 
prevent the attendance of members of the General Assembly 
at the Capitol, and did so defeat a quorum of the houses of 
said body. 

6. That afterwards, when a plan had been suggested by the 
Attorney General of the United States, which Vas adopted 
for the re-organization of the General Assembly, the said 
George E. Spencer and others with his connivance, in order 
to deprive a Senator of his seat in said body to which he had 
been lawfully elected by the people, and thereby obtain con- 
firmation of his said election to the United States Senate, 
fraudulently and corruptly conspired to oust said Senator 
from his seat, and did prevent him from occupying the same 
during more than one entire session of the General Assembly 
of Alabama. 

7. That said George E. Spencer, while endeavoring to 
secure his re-election to the Senate, and in order to get money 
to accomplish his said purposes, and while he was a Senator 
of the United States procured persons, who had been ap- 
pointed to office of trust in the United States Government, to 
convert the public money in their charge to his use, and to 
commit peculations for his advantage. 

These and other matters which are established by the tes- 
timony taken on said investigation, seem to require that the 
State of Alabama and the Senate of the United States, should 
take such measures as will secure to the State a person law- 



55 

fully elected, and a fit representative to the Senate of the 
United States, and one that is worthy and qualified to occupy 
a seat in that high tribunal. 

Your memorialists respectfully state that Geo. E. Spencer 
was not legally elected Senator from Alabama, nor was he 
ever voted for by a body, having a quorum of elected mem- 
bers, or a quorum of certificated members, as the Journals of 
the General Assembly of Alabama will show. 

Your memorialists respectfully pray of your Honorable 
Body, that you will take the report of the committee accom- 
panying this memorial as a part of the same ; that you will 
examine the evidence attached thereto taken by said com- 
mittee, and that the right of said Spencer to the seat he now 
holds, may be inquired into, a^d his claim thereto be de- 
clared invalid, and said seat be declared vacant. 



E^IDE^TCE 



TAKEN BEFOEE THE 



JOINT COMMITTEE 



GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF ALABAMA, 

Appointed to examine and report to the ttvo Houses of the Gen- 
eral Assembly the facts relating to the alleged election of 
Eon. George E. Spencer, as Senator in the Congress 
of the United States, the means by which such 
election teas procured and his creden- 
tials as a Senator were obtained. 



EVIDENCE. 



Montgomery, Alabama, ) 
March 18, 1875. j 

The Joint Committee consisting of Messrs. TV. G Little, jr., 
and W. H. Parks, of the Senate, and Messrs. Thomas H. Price, 
Leroy Brewer and Datus E. Coon, of the House of Represent- 
atives of the General Assembly of Alabama, appointed under 
the following joint resolution : 

Whereas, in the opinion of the General Assembly of Ala- 
bama, Hon. George E. Spencer does not rightfully occupy a 
seat in the Senate of the United States as a Senator from 
Alabama : 

Be it Resolved, By the House of Representatives, the Senate 
concurring, That a joint committee to consist of two Senators 
and three members of the House of Representatives be ap- 
pointed to investigate, examine and report to the two Houses 
of the General Assembly the facts relating to his alleged 
election as Senator, and the means by which such election 
was procured and his credentials as a Senator were obtained. 

Etsolved, 2. That said committee, or a majority thereof, 
may sit during the session of the General Assembly and dur- 
ing the recess, at any place in this State, and shall have au- 
thority to send for persons and papers, and to call witnesses 
before them on oath, and to employ a clerk to keep the re- 
cords and papers of the committee. 

Resolved, 3. That said committee report with all convenient 
speed a memorial to be addressed by the General Assembly 
to the Senate of the United States, touching the claims of 
George E. Spencer to a seat in that body as a Senator from 
Alabama, and shall report to the two Houses the evidence 
taken under these resolutions; 

Met in the city of Montgomery on the day above named. 

On motion of Mr. Brew 7 er, Mr. Little was elected chairman 
of the committee, and J. H. Francis was employed as clerk. 



IV. 

The committee then adjourned to meet in Mobile, Ala., on 
the 28th day of April, 1875. 

Mobile, Alabama, ) 
April 28, lblo. f 
The committee met pursuant to adjournment. 
Present — Messrs. Brewer and Price. 

A quorum not being present, the committee adjourned until 
10 a. m. to-morrow. 

Mobile, Alabama, ) 
April 29, 1875. [ 

The committee met pursuant to adjournment. 

Present — Messrs. Little, Parks, Price, Brewer and Coon. 

On motion of Mr Parks, it was agreed that Gen. John T. 
Morgan be admitted to the sessions of the committee as 
counsel for the State, and thatj-Mr. Spencer be admitted in 
person or his counsel. 

On motion of Mr. Price, it was agreed that the committee 
sit with open doors, unless otherwise ordered. 

Mr. Little, the chairman of the committee, submitted the 
following copy of a letter which he had written to Mr. Spen- 
cer : 

April 22, 1875. 
Hon. Geo. E. Spencer, Washington City : 

Dear Sir — The committee appointed under a resolution of 
the General Assembly of Alabama, to enquire into and inves- 
tigate how you procured your election as Senator from the 
State of Alabama to the Congress of the United States, will 
meet in the city of Mobile on Thursday, April 29, to proceed 
with said investigation, and this is to notify you. You can 
be present if you see proper to do so. 

W. G. Little, Chairman 
of said committee. 

On motion of Mr. Brewer, it^was agreed that Hon. George 
E. Spencer be informed by telegraph of the meeting of the 
committee, and that he could appear in person or by counsel 
before said committee if he desired to do so. | 

The chairman, Mr. Little, subsequently announced that he 
had telegraphed Mr. Spencer, as instructed by the committee, 
and had received a reply from the telegraph office at "Wash- 
ington informing him that the dispatch of Mr. Little to Mr. 
Spencer was delivered at 1.15 o'clock, p. m., Nov. 2i>, to Mr. 
Spencer. Wfa* 

The committee then proceeded to^takejthe testimony of 



JOHN J. MOULTON, 

of the city of Mobile, who being duly sworn, says : 

I know George E, Spencer. I was present in the city of 
Montgomery on the day before the organization of the Gen- 
eral Assembly on the 18th of November, 1872, at the court 
house. I returned to Mobile and went back to Montgomery 
about the 24th of the same month. I went to Montgomery 
by appointment with Mr. Spencer, when I first went up ; but 
he was not there when I returned from Mobile to Montgom- 
ery. I think I went at the instance of Mr. Spencer. I was 
not in Montgomery the day of the election of U. S. Senator 
by the court house assembly. I was there between the time 
of organization and the election of Spencer, and saw him 
there at that time. When I went on the last occasion I took 
a considerable sum of money with me — either a letter of credit 
or a check for $5,000, or about that amount. The letter of 
credit was on Josiah Morris & Co. 

Questions by General Morgan. 

Q. Was there any other time you took money to Montgom- 
ery about the time of the election for U. S. Senator? 

A. The first time I took a bill of exchange on New York 
for $5,000, drawn by T. P. Miller & Co. The next time I took 
money — it was $2,500, or about that amount. The records will 
show. 

Q. At whose instance or request did you take this money ? 

A. I cannot remember distinctly as to the first money. At 
the second time at the instance of Spencer. This last money 
was taken after Spencer's election by the court house assem- 
bly and about the time of Attorney General Williams' propo- 
sition of compromise was made. 

Q. Do you know Jerome J. Hinds ? 

A. I do. He lives at Decatur, Ala. 

Q. What were the relations between he and Spencer ? 

A. Very intimate. 

Q. During the period of which we have been talking, did 
you pay over any money to Hinds ? 

A. 1 did. 

Q. Did you take receipts ? 

A. Yes, for some amounts, but can not say as to all. 

Q. Did you pay any money on Hinds' order ? 

A. I paid only to him. 

Q. How much did you pay Hinds? 

A. I can not say exactly. I took his receipt for $1,800 at 
one time. I can not tell all. That was on the occasion of 
the organization of the legislature at the capitol, after Spen- 
cer's election by the court house assembly. 



VI. 

Q. Had you paid Hinds any money before this ? 

A. I don't think I had. 

Q. Did you owe Hinds any money ? 

A. I did not. 

Q. For what purpose did you pay him this money ? 

A. I paid it over on a dispatch at the request of Spencer. 

Q. For what purpose was the money paid ? 

A. I must answer from the surroundings. 

Q. What was the purport of the dispatch ? 

A. It read in substance as follows : " Meet Hinds in Mont- 
gomery " on a given day (which I think was Friday) ; " bring 
funds." Signed, "Geo. E. Spencer." The dispatch was 
dated at Washington. 

Q. Did you owe Spencer any money ? 

A. I did not. After Spencer's election he paid me, on the 
4th of December, 1872, $2,200. 

Q. What was your understanding of the use that was to 
be made of the money you paid to Hinds ? 

A. The short of it was, the fight was to be made over in 
the Martin-Miller contest in the Senate, and the money was 
to be used in seating Miller. 

Q. What money do you refer to ? 

A. The $1,800. 

Q. About how much more than the $1,800 did you let 
Hinds have ? 

A. After he gave me the receipt, he came to me for other 
sums. I can't remember the amounts. 

Q. How much money did you let Hinds have in all these 
legislative transactions, or Whiting, or any other person ? 

A. I can't fix it definitely in my mind. I think it less than 
$£,000. 

Q. What were the relations between Whiting and Spencer ? ' 

A. They were intimate. 

Q. What was Whiting engaged in ? 

A. He had some sinecure position under the federal gov- 
ernment. He drew pay all the time, and was chairman of 
the Republican State Executive Committee. 

Q. Did you see any of this money you paid to Hinds or 
Whiting paid out to any one ? 

A. I saw Hinds pay some out. 

Q. To whom, and what amounts ? 

A. The only sum I saw paid was a hundred dollar bill. 
Hinds and I were walking up to the capitol. We saw a man 
approaching, and Hinds said, " there is a man I want to give 
a hundred dollars. I have paid out all the money you let me 
have." I tcok out a hundred dollar bill and gave it to Hinds. 



vu. 

He handed it to the gentleman, who Hinds said was a mem- 
ber of the legislature and a Democrat. I could not tell the 
man's name. I might do so if I had a list of the members 
to look over. 

Q. Did he tell you to whom he paid the money, or any part 
of it? 

A. He said he wanted a $500 dollar bill to pay Mr. Glass, 
which I let him have. This was after the reorganization. It 
may have been just at the time. Both bodies were at the 
capitol. 

Q. Do you know of any other moneys Hinds or Whiting 
used? 

A. I do not. There is a dispute about the money Whiting 
received. It is alleged he used it for his own purposes. 
Q. Was this your own money ? 
A. Yes, sir, all of it. 

Q. Please look over this list of members of the General 
Assembly, and see if you recognize the name of the person 
to whom you saw Hinds pay the $100 bill. 

A. (After examining list.) I can not recognize the name. 
Q. Was the Martin-Miller contest pending when the $500 
and the $100 were paid by Hinds? 
A. It was. 

Q. Were you at that time a man of wealth, Mr. Moulton? 
A. I was very much embarrassed. 

Q. What was the grounds upon which Spencer made these 
requests ? 

A. To help his election as U. S. Senator. 
Q. What claim had he upon you upon which he depended 
to require from you these large sums of money ? 

A. I was holding office which was under his control. He 
never attempted to use that directly. It was an important 
and valuable office. My sons were also holding office. 

Q. Without any specific fact being made known by Mr. 
Spencer, did you not consider that was the groundjupon 
which he made the demand? 

A. It was understood the large sums were to be refunded 
by Spencer. 

Q. Did Spencer know your resources for obtaining large 
sums of money? 

A. I do not think he took it into account. When I became 
largely involved, I notified him I must be protected in my 
private interests and otherwise. Prior to his election as sen- 
ator, I told him my financial condition. I told him I must 
have $10,000 to settle my accounts with the government. He 
s aid he would let me have the amount, promised me that I 



Vlll. 

should have it. He has never let me have it, and I paid it 
out of my private means. He told me to wait until he was 
elected to the Senate and he would have $10,000 left, he 
thought, and I should have every dollar of it. I told 
him I intended to resign as postmaster of Mobile. I said to 
him, " I can't stand this any longer." He replied, " don't re- 
sign. I will stand by you till hell freezes over." Mr. Pether- 
bridge came to me for a settlement of my accounts. I drew 
on Spencer for $5,000 by telegraph. My draft was not hon- 
ored, nor has it ever been paid. This was about July 1 1 , 1873. 

Q. Did you ever demand other sums of him ? 

A. I did not. The demand for $5,000 was shortly after his 
election. I drew by telegraph and he replied, " I am out of 
money." 

Q. Did Mr. Spencer, by telegraph or otherwise, ever inti- 
mate the use of post office money for political purposes ? 

A. He did not. 

Q. Did he assure you you would be protected by the post- 
office department or through his influence, or any other in- 
fluence,- for the use of post office money for political purposes? 

A. No. I had a conversation with him in Montgomery at 
the time I asked him for the $10,000. I told him I was dis- 
couraged. I told him I was going to resign unless that 
money was paid. He said, don't do it. I replied, I would 
be compelled to do so. He replied, don't do it. I will stand 
by you. I can make it all right in Washington. 

Q. Did you understand that he meant to indemnify you out 
of his own resources, or that through his influence he could 
protect you? 

A. I did not believe, from my knowledge, he could pay me 
out of his resources ; but I knew he had had control of about 
$15,000 of an election fund during the campaign, and from 
his further statement to me, that he would have $10,000 left. 

Q. How long after you separated from him in Montgomery 
before you drew upon him for $5,000? 

A. About two months. 

Q. Did you make great sacrifices for the money advanced 
for him? 

A. I did. 

Q. Did you pay to any other persons besides Hinds and 
Whiting any moneys in Montgomery, or turn over any 
moneys ? 

A. No sir, I think not. 

Q. Did Spencer or his friends say to you at any time before 
or after his election, that the object of the meeting of the 
court house assembly was to secure the election of an U. S. 
Senator ? 



IX. 

A. He did not. His friends evidently had that in view. 

Q. Who were the active friends outside of the legislature in 
urging his election ? 

A. There were a number. 

Q. Who were regarded the leaders? 

A. Hinds was very prominent. Whiting did what he could. 
HiDds has always been nearer to Spencer than any other 
man. It was thought Hinds had always to be pacified to se- 
cure Spencer's favor. This has been the case since Spencer's 
election. They are very intimate and live in the same house. 

Q. Were there any other active men for Spencer in the 
lobby? 

A. Governor Smith and all the Federal office holders in the 
State were doing all they could. I do not think if Spencer's 
election had been certain that the court house legislature 
would have been organized. 

By Mr. Little— 

Q. Do you state that this money was used directly or indi- 
rectly to secure the election of Mr. Spencer ? 

A. That was understood to be the purpose. There is no 
doubt such was the case. 

Questions by Gen. Morgan — 

Q. After the election of Spencer and the plan of the organ- 
ization of the legislature had been proposed by Attorney 
General Williams, did you receive any telegrams from 
Spencer? 

A. I did. He telegraphed me from Washington to go to 
Montgomery to meet Hinds and to bring funds. In this dis- 
patch, or in a dispatch or letter received about this time, 
Spencer stated that the fight had to be made over again. 

Q. How much money did you take to Montgomery at the 
request of Spencer to be handed to Hinds? 

A. About $2,500 or $3,000 in a letter of credit on Josiah 
Morris & Co. 

Q. Did you afterwards furnish any money to any one else 
to be used for the benefit of Spencer. 

A. I afterwards received a dispatch, on the 10th or 11th 
day of January, from Hinds, drawing upon me for $500. I 
received two or three dispatches from him the same day. He 
said he must have the money, that it was absolutely neces- 
sary. I telegraphed him to call upon Bingham, who had 
funds in his possession of mine, who would pay him about 
$250 ; which he did. 

Q. Did Hinds telegraph for these funds on his own account 
or Spencer's? 

A, Unquestionably on Spencer's. I never had a business 
transaction with Hinds. 



X. 

Q. After that time did you, in any way, furnish any moneys 
to Hinds, or any one else, on Spencer's account ? 

A. I did not. 

Q. Were any requests made by Hinds, Whiting, or any 
one else, for money to be used in these legislative transactions 
for Spencer's benefit to which you failed to respond ? 

A. No other. 

Q. Was Petherbridge in Mobile at the time Hinds' dis- 
patch was received ? 

A. He was. 

Q. Will you fix some day upon which the conversation 
occurred between you and Spencer, in which you told him 
you would resign ? 

A. I think it was on the first or fourth of December, 1872. 
I am inclined to think it was two or three days before his 
election occurred. 

Q. Why was it that you demanded $10,000 of Spencer 
when you had not advanced that amount ? 

A. I don't think I demanded it. I stated to him I must 
have that amount. For eighteen months before this drafts 
had been drawn upon me by different persons for political 
purposes at Spencer's instance, and in this way I had advanced 
a large amount of money, in which I was assured I would be 
protected by Spencer. It was in this way the sum had accu- 
mulated that I told Spencer it must be refunded to me. The 
amount I had thus advanced exceeded $10,000. 

Q. Did he ever deny to you his liability to refund this 
money to you? 

A. He did not in any respect. 

Q. Were any of these drafts drawn by Whiting or Hinds ? 

A. They were. 

Q. Were they large amounts in the aggregate ? 

A, They were. 

Q. In the latter part of 1872 did you tell Spencer you 
were broke V 

A. I think I told him I was bankrupt. 

Q. Did you tell him or give him to understand that the 
heavy drafts made upon you was the cause of it ? 

A. Spencer knew it, and always recognized it in his con- 
versations with me. 

Q. Was all this prior to the request to furnish money to 
Hinds at Montgomery ? 

A. It was. 

Q. Have you any recollection of Hinds having told you 
to whom he paid money, or that he wanted money in connec- 
tion with Spencer's election ? 



XI. 

A. He told me in conversations that various persons 
wanted money ; that this man wants so much (naming the 
man), and that one wants so much, but I cannot recall the 
names of the persons mentioned. The question was asked in 
my presence, whether the senator who paired off with Glass 
would not return on a particular day, referring to the day 
upon which the Martin-Miller contest was to be decided. 
Hinds spoke up and said that he (referring to the Senator) 
had been "fixed." 

Questions by Mr. Parks — 

Q. Might not Hinds have referred to the agreement made 
between this Senator and Glass ? 

A. He undoubtedly referred to that, but conveyed the idea 
that there had been some arrangement made between him- 
self (Hinds) and that Senator. When it was suggested that 
the Democratic senator might return, Hinds spoke up and 
said, "he is fixed, I will answer for that." 

Q. Was that in the conversation in which he said "I want 
so much for this man and so much for that?" 

A. No sir ! It was more than a month afterwards. 

Question by Mr. Coon — 

Q. Did you understand at the time Hinds used the ex- 
pression "he is fixed," that he meant that money had been 
used? 

A. I did so understand it. It was understood that the 
disbursement of money was Hinds' business, on account of 
General Spencer. 

Questions by General Morgan — 

Q. At the time the last conversation named occurred, was 
it considered a necessity to the security of Spencer's seat in 
the senate that the Martin-Miller contest should be settled in 
favor of Miller. 

A. It was considered of vital importance. Spencer told 
me in Washington that it must be done ; that his seat de- 
pended upon it ; that it was of vital importance, and was the 
key to the situation. 

Q. What did Spencer tell you of a conversation held with 
his friends in Washington in regard to the contract between 
Martin and Miller ? 

A. He said his friends in the United States Senate re- 
garded it as necessary, and so advised him that it was neces- 
sary to seat Miller, and if it was not done it was doubtful 
whether he could retain his seat. 

Q. Did Spencer, while you were in Washington, in any of 
the conversations had with him on this subject, request or re- 
quire of you to aid him in this matter? 



Xll. 

A. No sir, if you refer to his being seated in the senate. 
These conversations occurred after I had furnished money as 
before stated to Hinds. 

Q. You spoke of a dispatch, on yesterday, received from 
Spencer, in cypher ; to what did that dispatch relate ? 

A. The dispatch requested me to furnish Hinds with 
money. It could only be read with a key, which both 
Spencer and I had. 

Q. Was Spencer in Montgomery during the Miller-Martin 
in contest. 

A. I don't think he was. 

Q. Who was his chief agent and manager in Montgomery? 

A. J. J. Hinds. 

Q. Do you know of any promises of office made by Spencer 
or his agents in consideration of supporting him for TJ..S. 
Senator? 

A. I do not of my own knowledge. 

Q. Do you know of such as stated by Hinds ? 

A. I heard Hinds say if a certain member of the legisla- 
ture stands firm he shall have a certain federal office, which he 
afterwards did get. 

Q. Did you hear Hinds say if George Duskin stood up to 
Spencer in his election for U. S. Senator, he would be ap- 
pointed to a federal office ? 

A. I did hear him say so. My recollection is that Hinds 
was commissioned by Spencer, who was on the ground, to go 
directly to Duskin and make the bargain with him. 

Q. Did he get the office ? 

A. He did and now holds it. 

Q. Had not Duskin withdrawn from the court house as- 
sembly before this time and started home ? 

A. He had. The pledges made to him were not satisfac- 
tory and he demanded a more responsible underwriter ; at 
least so I understood it. When he received the pledges de- 
manded he returned and took his seat. 

Q. Do you know, as coming from Hinds or Spencer, the 
promise of federal office to any other members in case they 
supported Spencer for Senator ? 

A. I know of none. 

Questions by Mr. Little — 

Q. Did not J. C. Goodloe decline to go into the court 
house assembly for some time after its organization ? 

A. Yes sir. 

Q. Before he went into the court house assembly, did 
you not hear the subject of his getting a federal office dis- 
cussed ? 



xm. 

A . It was understood that he was to be provided for. 

Q. "Was he subsequently appointed to a federal office? 

A. He was. He received the appointment of collector of 
the port of Mobile. 

Q. Who did you hear discussing this proposition relative 
toMr.Goodloe? 

A. Hinds and others of Spencer's friends. 

Questions by Mr. Coon — 

Q. Was it not your understanding that Senator Wilson of 
Montgomery was originally opposed to Spencer's second 
election ? 

A. I understood he was considered doubtful and needed to 
be looked after. 

Q. Was it not your understanding that he was to receive 
the post office at Montgomery ? 

A. I did not so understand it at the time but learned it 
afterwards. 

Q. Did Wilson finally obtain the post office at Montgom- 
ery and did he vote for Spencer? 

A. He obtained the post office. The records will show 
how he voted. 

Q. How much money did you advance in the Spencer- 
Warner contests? 

A. About $2,000, in Spencer's interest, and at the request 
of H. Bay Myers. 

Q. Previous to your appointment as post master of Mo 
bile, how much money had you advanced in Spencer's in- 
terest ? 

A. Upwards of $2,000. 

Questions by Gen. Morgan. — 

Q. Did you at any time borrow any money from Gen. 
Spencer ? 

A. I did not. 

Q. Did vou borrow $2,250 from him the day after his 
election as U. S. Senator in Montgomery ? 

A. He gave me that amount. I did not borrow it. 

Q. Why did he give it to you ? 

A. It was to refund moneys I had advanced for him in 
large sums as heretofore stated. 

Q. In the cypher telegram spoken of in your evidence 
heretofore, did he demand of you that you should take money 
to Montgomery to pay the $2,250? 

A. He did not. He said to come and bring funds. 

Q. Has Spencer ever demanded of you since that time 
that you should refund to him the $2,250 or any part of it ? 

A. No, sir, he has never done so. 



XIV. 

Q. Did you have a key to the cypher dispatch sent by 
Spencer? 

A. I did. 

Q. Did you have a key when the dispatch was received ? 

A. I did not and went over to Mayer's house and we read 
it together, he having a key. I told him this meant business; 
there was more work. 

Q. Did that dispatch tell you to meet Spencer or Hinds ? 

A. Hinds. Mayer saw the dispatch and knew its con- 
tents. 

Questions by Mr. Coon — 

Q. Did you ever return any of the $2,250 voluntarily ? 

A. I have never paid one dime of the money. 

Question by Mr. Price — 

Q. Was Mayer present when Spencer handed you a pack- 
age containing $2,250 in Montgomery, or did heparticipate in 
that transaction by way of carrying messages or otherwise 
between yourself and Spencer about the matter ? 

A. Mr. Spencer never handed me a package containing 
$2,250 at Montgomery or at any other time or place. Spen- 
cer did hand me a bank check for $2,250 drawn to his or- 
der and by him endorsed, and when he handed it to me it 
was in a room when no one was present. I never men- 
tioned the matter to Mayer until a long time afterwards. 
This is the only check or money I ever received from Spencer. 

John. J. Moulton. 

w. H. LEWIS 

Being sworn, says : 

I was clerk in the post office in Mobile when Mr. J. J. 
Moulton was post master. Mr. Moulton obtained the place 
for me. I do not know Mr. Spencer. At one time I was 
in the money order department, and was afterwards made 
assistant post master. Mr. Moulton kept his bank account 
with T. P. Miller a short time before he went out of office. 
Remittances to the money order office were deposited either 
at the Custom house, at the First National Bank or at Miller's. 
Mr. Moulton drew drafts against the money so deposited. 

Q. What property did Mr. Moulton have at that time ? 

A. But little other than his salary as postmaster. 

Q. When he went out of office were his accounts be- 
hind? 

A. They were, and my mother (Mrs. Moulton) had to 
raise the money out of her private means to settle them. 
This was about the middle of February, 1873. 

Q. Do you know of any demands made upon Mr. Moulton 



XV. 

by any party at Montgomery to aid in the election of Mr. 
Spencer? 

A. I do not. 

W. H. Lewis. 

JAMES GILLETTE 

Being sworn, says : 

I was United States Commissioner for the Southern Dis- 
trict of Alabama in 1872. 

Questions by Gen. Morgan — 

Q. Did you issue a warrant for the arrest of three per- 
sons from Marengo county, claiming to be representatives 
to the general assembly, just before the time for its annual 
session in the year 1872? 

A. I did, and for two or three others not members. 

Q. Where were you when the warrant was issued. 

A. The warrant was issued at Montgomery on the affi- 
davit of B. K Thomas, who claimed to be a member from 
Marengo county. It was prepared by Alexander White 
and U. S. District Attorney Minnis. 

Q. Where was the warrant returnable ? 

A. I desire to say that as supervisor of elections I con- 
sidered my jurisdiction extended over the State. I was 
appointed by the United States Circuit Court, Chief Super- 
visor of Elections in the State. In the matter of the inves- 
tigation of election troubles I considered my jurisdiction 
extended over the State. I do not know where the warrant 
was returnable. The records will show. The parties came 
before me in Mobile and waived examination. 

Q. Was Gen. Spencer in Montgomery when the war- 
rant was issued? 

A. He was there when I left. I do not know whether 
he was there when the warrant was issued. 

Q. Did you not go to Montgomery to commence that 
prosecution ? 

A. An affidavit was first made before me at Mobile, pre- 
pared by W. W. D. Turner. I sent the warrants to the mar- 
shal. I thought, upon further consideration, that the war- 
rants ought to be recalled because the evidence was insuffi- 
cient. I wrote to withdraw the warrants and went to Mont- 
gomery to see that they were withdrawn. When I arrived 
there, Mr. Thomas appeared before me, and made affidavit of 
the facts on his own knowledge, and issued new warrants. 
The parties were arrested, and were brought before me in 
this city. After waiving an examination, I bound them over 



XVI. 

to appear at the next term of the U. S. District Court. I 
turned the papers in the case over to the district attorney, 
and this is the last I ever heard of the case. The parties 
were brought to Mobile, during or about the time of the first 
assembling of the legislature in 1872. 

Q. Were you in Montgomery when they were in Selma? 

A. I do not know. 

Q. You do not know the round they took ? 

A. I do not, except from rumor. 

Q. Did you not know the purpose of the issue of the war- 
rant was to prevent the participation of the Marengo mem- 
bers in the organization of the House of Representatives of 
the General Assembly. 

A. I did not know any such thing. My knowledge of the 
case was purely official. 

Q. What other officer in the southern district of Alabama 
had the right at that time to take bail ? 

A. I think there were two commissioners in the neighbor- 
hood of Demopolis, Mr. Wayne and Mr. Meredith, of Sum- 
ter, were commissioners. 

Q. Who made the affidavit upon which the first warrant 
was issued ? 

A. A colored man. He was clear at first, but I talked 
with him afterwards and was not satisfied, and had some mis- 
givings as to his statements. I had never seen him before. 

Q. Did you know B. R. Thomas ? 

A. I did not know him before I met him in Montgomery. 

Q. Do you know whether he is any more honest than the 
negro ? 

A. He made a more intelligent affidavit. 

Q. Did you say the affidavit was prepared when you ar- 
rived in Montgomery ? 

A. Mr. White and Mr. Minnis were preparing it, or 
brought Mr. Thomas before me shortly after my arrival. 

Q. Did you get back from Montgomery on the Monday or 
Tuesday of the week of the assembling of the court house 
assembly. 

A. I do not remember. 

Q. When in Montgomery, did you issue any other war- 
rants ? 

A. I do not remember. 

Q. Did you not issue warrants for the Barbour members? 

A. I do not think I did. I am pretty certain I did not; 
but the records will show. I wish to state in reference to the 
warrant issued for the Marengo members and the board of 
supervisors for that county, I had in my office as chief super- 



XV11. 

visor, certain reports and tally lists made by the U. S. super- 
visor at Demopolis of the vote cast in the city of Demopolis, 
and the report that a large number of votes, some seven or 
eight hundred, contained in one box. had been thrown out 
by the county board of supervisors. This report made it my 
duty to investigate the whole matter, even if no subsequent 
affidavits had been made. 

Q. Were these reports official ? 

A. They were, and were made by sworn officers. 

Q. Do you know who were the supervisors ? 

A. I do not. Two were democrats and two were repub- 
licans. I do not remember who signed the report of the 
frauds. The box I speak of was thrown out by the county 
board of supervisors. The federal supervisors charged that 
the votes had been improperly thrown out. 

Q. In issuing this warrant upon the negro's affidavit, did 
these reports influence your action? 

A. Only as to there being probable cause. 

Q. Why, then, did yon think it necessary to recall the 
warrant ? 

A. It was a matter of grave importance. I could have 
investigated the alleged frauds in my capacity of chief super- 
visor without arresting any one. The colored man was not 
an aggrieved party, as Mr. Thomas subsequently claimed to 
have been. At any rate, I withdrew my first warrants upon 
a deliberate opinion that public interest would not suffer 
thereby, and only issued fresh warrants when compelled to 
do so by clear and undoubted testimony. 

Q. Did you think the white man who was interested in 
the case was more to be trusted than the colored man who 
had no interest, and was supported by the supervisors' re- 
port? 

A. I thought Mr. Thomas, who claimed to be the right- 
fully elected member, and seemed to have full knowledge of 
all the facts of the alleged fraud by which he was deprived 
of his certificate, was the most interested party. The ques- 
tion of respectability or color had nothing to do with the 
matter. It was purely a matter of evidence. 

James Gilette. 
philip joseph 

Being sworn, says : 

I was in Montgomery in November, 1872, at the time of 
the organization of the court house assembly. I had a con- 
versation with Gen. Spencer before or shortly after its organ- 
2 



xvm. 

Ization. It was before his election. The conversation was 
regarding party affairs. His candidacy for the U. S. senate 
was mentioned. There were no other candidates for the 
place at that time. There had been considerable opposition 
to him. 

Questions by Gen. Morgan — 

Q. Do you know of him or his friends having used any 
money to secure his election ? 

A. From my own knowledge I do not. 

Q. From what source did you learn that money had been 
used? 

A. From persons belonging to the court house organiza- 
tion. I would prefer not to give their names. I mean mem- 
bers of the court house assembly. 

Q. Was the information you received from a member of 
the court house assembly ? 

A. He was not a member. 

Q. Do you know of money having been paid to any one 
to secure his support of Spencer ? 

A. Not of my own knowledge. 

Q. What was the object of the court house movement ? 

A. 1st. To give to the republicans control of the State ; 
and 2d. To elect Spencer. 

Q. Were you in the caucus at the XL S. court room on the 
day of the organization of the court house body, or in any 
caucus of the general assembly ? 

A. I was in several caucuses, but do not know of any 
special thing that was done. 

Q. Who were the most active men outside of the mem- 
bers, in supporting Spencer for senator? 

A. I noticed Mr. Brainard. J. J. Hinds seemed to take 
great interest, as did also Whiting. 

Q. Were you advocating or opposing him at that time ? 

A. I can't say I ever advocated his election. 

Q. Did you oppose him up to his election ? 

A. I ceased opposition when I found those who might 
have defeated him had given their adhesion to him. 

Q. Did you then become his advocate? 

A. I did not. 

Q. How did those who had been opposing him come to 
quiet their opposition ? 

A. I heard rumors, but had no personal knowledge. 

Q. Were they prevailing at the time ? 

A. I heard them. My understanding was some promises 
of federal patronage had been made. It was generally un- 
derstood that Spencer controlled all the federal patronage 



XIX. 

except local post offices, and these also if he took interest in 
them. This idea prevailed among some of the members of 
the general assembly. 

Q. Did you hear any member of the court house assem- 
bly say that office had been promised him if he would vote 
for Spencer ? 

A. I heard members say offices had been promised, but 
did not hear them say offices had been promised them. 

Q. Please give the names of the members you heard say 
this. 

A. I prefer not to do so. 

Qestions by Mr. Price — 

Q. Was the impression made on your mind by any ex- 
pression of any member of the court house assembly that 
Spencer used monev or official patronage to secure his elec- 
tion? 

A. A member stated to me that federal patronage had 
been promised, but I know of no money having been used. 

Philip Joseph. 

harry c. thrower 

Being sworn, says : 

I know Geo. E. Spencer when I see him. I have no per- 
sonal acquaintance with him. I was in Mobile at the time the 
court house assembly was in session at Montgomery. 

Questions by Gen. Morgan — 

Q. Do you know any persons who were members of that 
Legislature who afterwards received appointments to Federal 
office? 

A. I do. 

Q. If you have heard such persons say that they received 
Federal offices in consideration of supporting Spencer for IT. 
S. Senator, state who the persons were and the conversations 
had with them on the subject. 

A. I had no conversations with persons who were mem- 
bers of the Legislature , but had conversations with other 
persons who were up there at Montgomery supporting Spen- 
cer. 

Q. Who were they ? 

A. George B. Yarrington and John G. Osborne. 

Q. What offices did they receive ? 

A. One is detective for the U. S. Kevenue Department, 
the other is a gauger in the same department. 

Q. What did they tell you that occurred between them, 
and Spencer, or in regard to the means by whichjhey had 
secured their appointments ? 



XX. 

A. They said they had obtained their appointments by 
having used influences upon members in securing Spencer's 
election. 

Q. "What means did they say they used ? 

A. By getting men who had not made up their minds 
which Legislature to go into to join the body that elected 
Spencer. 

Q. Did they say what influences they used, whether per- 
suasive or some other means ? . rf ; 

A. They stated that Spencer authorized them to promise 
Federal office to doubting members, if they would join the 
court house legislature. These members did not get the 
promised offices and they were making merry over the fact. 

Q. Do you remember the names of any of tbe members 
who had been induced by promises of federal office to join 
the court house legislature ? 

A. I remember J. C. Goodloe. It was stated that Spencer 
could not have been elected unless Goodloe went over to the 
court house assembly and supported him. He was a long 
time making up his mind which legislature he would join. 
He was finally induced to go to the court house legislature, 
as was stated to me, by promises of being made collector of 
the port of Mobile, which office he now holds. 

Q. Do you know of any other persons who were at Mont- 
gomery using their influence to secure Spencer's election 
who have since received federal appointments. 

A. I do. Lou H. Mayer, Frank Y. Anderson and H. Eay 
Myers. 

Q. Where do these parties reside ? 

A. H. Kay Myers resides in Canada, the other two in 
Mobile. 

Q. At the time of Spencer's election by the court house 
assembly, what position, if any, did you hold ? 

A. I was inspector of customs at Mobile. 

Q. Were you well acquainted with persons holding fed- 
eral office in the custom and internal revenue department in 
this city at that time ? 

A. I was. 

Q. State whether any tax or contribution was made upon 
such federal officeholders while Spencer's election was pend- 
ing? 

A. A demand was made on every federal officeholder in 
the building for money for Spencer, with the understanding 
that if they did not pay they would be turned out of office. 

Q. What was the purpose of the contribution ■? 



XX] . 

A. It was stated General Spencer had sent here for money 
and must have it. 

Q. Why was the levy made on federal officeholders ? 

A. It was understood that these offices were under Spen- 
cer's control and the officers could be removed at his pleasure. 

Q. What was Spencer's necessity for money at that time? 

A. It was understood he needed the money to carry the 
legislature to elect him. 

Q. How much did you pay, and how much was assessed 
to you ? 

A. I did not pay — they just took it. There were two or 
three assessments. Forty dollars at one time, twenty at an- 
other, and I think fifteen at another. I signed vouchers for 
the full amount of my monthly pay, ranging from $120 to $124. 
At the time I was assessed $40, I received $80 on the voucher 
for $120 ; at the time I was assessed $20, I received on the 
voucher for $124, $104; at the time I was assessed $15, I 
received on the voucher for $120, $105. At the same time I 
signed the vouchers, I gave orders on the collector, authoriz- 
ing said amounts to be deducted from my salary. All of the 
federal officers did the same ; they were assessed in the- same 
proportion and for the same purposes. We all received a 
letter from the deputy collector, D. C. Rugg, stating that if 
we did not feel disposed to pay these assessments that our 
resignations would be accepted, as there were others who 
would pay liberally for the positions. I intended to save the 
letter, but lost it. . 

Q. When did you receive this letter ? 

A. I think it was just after the general election in 1S72. 

Q. Do you know of any officers in the custom house or 
revenue department who drew pay, but performed no service? 

A. I know that there were several whose names were on 
the pay roll of the inspectors who drew pay and performed 
no duty. I made out the rolls nearly every morning. I think 
J. W. Dereen was one, J. K. Greene another. Greene left 
here about two months before the election and never returned. 
The other names I cannot now remember. 

Q. Were these men afterwards elected to the Legislature ? 

A. I know J. K. Green was a member of the Legislature 
from Hale county at the time and was afterwards re-elected. 
I think Dereen was a Senator at the time and was also re- 
elected. 

Q. Were Green and Dereen members of the court house 
assembly ? 

A. I think they were. 



XX11. 

Q. Do you know of any person now holding a position in 
the custom house, drawing pay, who performs no duty. 

A. Yes. D. C. Whiting holds the position of appraiser of 
merchandise at the port of Mobile and is very seldom here 
He is absent now and has been absent most of the time for 
six months. He is incapacitated from holding any office, hav- 
ing lost his mind. A man by the name of Townsley is per- 
forming his duties for $30 per month, for which Whiting r-e 
ceives over $200 per month. Mr. Frank Y. Anderson holds 
the position of special U. S. Treasury agent by special ap- 
pointment of Spencer. He receives about $125 per month. 
There is no duty connected with the office. He was appoint- 
ed an inspector of customs and ordered by collector Goodloe 
to report to the chief inspector for duty, which he refused to 
do. Goodloe then told him he had no further use for him 
and refused to allow his name entered on the roll of inspect- 
ors. Anderson afterwards wrote to General Spencer asking a 
different appointment and obtained the office of assistant 
treasury agent. 

Henry C. Thrower. 

Mobile, Alabama, ) 
May 1, 1875. J 
The committee met pursuant to adjournment. 
Present — Messrs. Little, Parks, Price, Brewer and Coon, 

sEON. J. P. SOUTHWORTH, 

being sworn, deposes and says : 

I belong to the Republican party. Was first appointed 
district attorney of the United States, in May, 1864, for the 
southern district of Alabama ; was subsequently appointed 
for the northern and middle districts, and held that position 
for a year. My term expired in May, 1873, and George M. 
Dustin succeeded me. I came to reside in Alabama in Feb- 
ruary, 1869. While in this office I took an active part in 
general politics, and to a considerable extent in other States, 
I thought the organization of the assembly known as the 
court house legislature, at Montgomery, in November, 1872, 
was unlawful, unconstitutional and revolutionary in the ex- 
treme, and I still think so. I was not in Montgomery while 
that body was in session. There were influential and promi- 
nent republicans in Alabama who regarded that organization 
as I did. Judging the tree by its fruit, I am satisfied that 
the re-election of Mr. Spencer to the United States Senate 
was the chief purpose in view in that organization. 



xxin. 

By General Morgan — 

Q. State whether that opinion prevailed at the time 
amongst the Republican party in Alabama ? 

A. I am satisfied it did. When I say the Republican 
party I mean the intelligent members of that party. I know 
J. J. Moulton, the ex-postmaster at Mobile ; I was district 
attorney, and it became my duty to investigate alleged defal- 
cations of said Moulton, who was then postmaster of Mo- 
bile. The first intimation I had on the subject came from 
Mr. Petherbridge, an agent of the postoffice department. 
Moulton was found to be in arrears to the Government of the 
United States in the sum of about $23,000. The loss was 
made good by the personal friends of Mr. Moulton in Mobile, 
after which he was indicted and prosecuted for the embezzle- 
ment in the circuit court of the United States at Mobile, at 
which time, and on that account, the hostility of Mr. Spencer 
became more marked towards me. He had never liked me 
beeause I was the friend of General Warner ; I had an inter- 
view with Mr. Moulton and Petherbridge together ; Moulton's 
defalcation related chiefly to the money order fund, which he 
had mainly deposited to his personal credit in the banking- 
house of T. P. Miller & Co., in Mobile, and had drawn out of 
the bank on his personal checks. In the interview with the 
agent of the Government, I saw a telegram from Geo. E. 
Spencer to Moulton, which read, in substance, "come to 
Montgomery, (on some day named, I think it was Friday), 
meet Hinds and bring funds." The dispatch I saw may have 
been a copy. This was in January or February, or March, 
1873 ; the date of the dispatch I cannot state, I think it was 
during the time of the session of the court house legislature ; 
I have no doubt that was the date. After I had learned these 
facts from Petherbridge, and had been informed by him that 
Moulton had said, in a defiant way, that the money had been 
used for Spencer's electioneering purposes, and that Spencer 
would stand by him to the bitter end, and on the morning of 
Moulton's arrest, when he was brought to my office by the 
marshal, Moulton expressed a wish to go to the city building 
and see his brother, who was then the mayor of Mobile ; I 
told him to go with the marshal ; he expressed a dislike to be 
on the streets with the marshal and asked me to take him 
there ; I consented and went with him. Judge Moulton came 
from the bench where he was presiding in the mayor's court; 
we went to his private room and sent for him, and he came 
immediately. As the judge came in the room John Moulton 
said to him "Judge, they have arrested me after all." The 
judge replied, "Just as I expected, when you were flourishing 



XXIV. 

you were led and controlled by that damned Spencer and 
those other damned scoundrels of his, but when you get into 
trouble, as you have in this matter in using the funds to 
build up Mr. Spencer, you come to me ; I can't help you, I 
shall not try ; let the men who got you into this trouble get 
you out, I shan't try it. I said to John Moulton I thought a 
motion to adjourn would be in order, and we returned to my 
office. During the day C. F. Moulton came to my office and 
went on John Moulton's bond for his appearance to answer 
this offense. 

I made no effort to conceal Mr, Spencer's connection with 
this matter, but was free to express my view of it, and after- 
wards told it to the attorney general. The case went on, 
and, after a continuance, which was ordered at one term by 
the attorney general, was, at a subsequent term, tried before 
Judge Woods and a jury. The jury did not agree on a ver- 
dict and the case was subsequently nolle prossed, after I went 
out of office. The case was nolle prossed by the order of the 
attorney general on the recommendation of Mr. Hays, Gen- 
eral Spencer, and perhaps others. In giving the language of 
other persons, above, I was following my recollection of the 
substance of what was said, and am satisfied I have stated 
them pretty accurately. When I went to the city building, 
on the day mentioned, I was strongly convinced that the 
money that Moulton was short in his accounts had been 
used, in part, for the personal electioneering purposes of 
Spencer, to procure his re-election to the senate. When I 
heard the conversation between the brothers, (the Moultons) 
I had no doubt of it, and did not hesitate, on proper occa- 
sions, so to express my conviction. One of these proper oc- 
casions was a subsequent interview with the attorney general, 
in which I said to him, in substance, that it would be even- 
handed justice to punish Spencer instead of Moulton. 
Spencer was active in requesting my removal as district at- 
torney. 

Q. Who had the chief or virtual control of Federal pa- 
tronage in Alabama at the time of these transactions ? 

A. Geo. E. Spencer. 

Q. Was his sway, in this regard, materially divided or 
shared in by any other person as it related to the custom- 
house and post-office at Mobile ? 

A. It was not. He was considered amongst Republicans 
in Alabama as the chief dispenser of public Federal patron- 
age, and it was known that he favored those only who con- 
tributed to his personal preferment or adhered to his personal 
fortunes. After his election to the United States Senate by 



XXV. 

the court house assembly, it was a known fact that those who 
obtained Federal appointment or employment in Alabama, 
were those who had assisted in his election, and in some in- 
stances those who had voted for him or afterwards sustained 
his course in the combined or fusion legislature. To instance, 
Wilson was made postmaster at Montgomery; Cochran, post- 
master at Selma ; Goodloe, collector of the port of Mobile ; 
the brother of Miller (senator of Butler and Conecuh, who 
had the contest with Martin) a Scotchman, fresh from Scot- 
land, and then not naturalized, and quite an inexperienced 
youth, not much over twenty-one years of age, was made 
deputy collector of the port of Mobile ; Chisholm, who was a 
conscript member of the senate of the court house body, but 
never took his seat in the fusion legislature, was given a place 
in the custom house; General Dustan was appointed chief 
special treasury agent at Mobile, and still holds the office ; 
Geo. M. Duskin was appointed district attorney for the 
southern district of Alabama; Hon. Nick McAfee was ap- 
pointed to succeed Judge Minnis as district attorney for the 
middle and northern districts of Alabama ; P. G. Clarke was 
made postoffice agent in Alabama, and now holds the office. 
Others of the body, I am well assured, were promised good 
places by Spencer and his supporters, and have failed to get 
them. Before this legislature met there was a strong body of 
Republicans who agreed to oppose Spencer's re-election to 
the senate of the United States ; of this number were Messrs. 
Alexander White, and Lewis E. Parsons, and they were 
strongly pledged to use all proper means to defeat him. Mr. 
Parsons has had a Federal appointment, but was not con- 
firmed by the Senate ; Mr. Pennington was a member of that 
body, and was soon afterwards made governor of Dakota, 
which office he now holds. These instances, and a general 
and free discussion of this subject amongst Eepublicans, 
satisfied my mind that most of the members of the court 
house body had some promise of office, place or preferment 
from Spencer, and that he has rewarded all of them as far as 
possible. There has been much grumbling amongst the dis- 
appointed. 

John P. Southwoeth. 

HON. ALEXANDER m'kINSTRY 

Being sworn, says : 

I was lieut. governor of the State of Alabama in November, 
1872 ; I took the oath of office between the 23rd and 26th of 
that month ; I was notified of my election to that office by a 



XXVI. 



committee of the capitol legislature ; I remember Mr. Man- 
ning of the House and Mr. Martin of the Senate as being 
members of that committee ; my election was ascertained by 
the capital legislature ; the vote by which I w as elected was 
not counted by the court house legislature ; my commission 
as lieutenant governor was signed by Gov. Lewis ; the certifi- 
cate of the secretary of state is the commission ; Mr. E. H. 
Moren was lieutenant governor of the senate up to my in- 
stallation into office ; after my installation I took my seat in 
the court house legislature, after I had been notified by Gov. 
Lewis that he recognized that body as the legislature; I 
found J. L. Pennington presiding in that body ; I had not 
been there until I went to preside ; I did not agree that I 
would go there as soon as I was installed into office ; Geo. E. 
Spencer was in Montgomery when I took my seat — my im- 
pression is he was ; he was a candidate before the courthouse 
body for United States Senator ; I do not thick any one else 
was spoken of as a candidate ; Geo. M. Duskin was a mem- 
ber of the senate of the court house body. After the plan 
of the attorney general was submitted, both bodies — the cap- 
itol and court house — kept organized, Duskin was weak and 
had to be persuaded along. The first I knew of his weakness 
was on the bill relating to taxation ; I mean by weakness, he 
manifested a disposition not to attend ; he did not come, and 
had to be sent for. 

Q. Do you know of any argument or persuasion that was 
used with him to induce him to attend? 

A. I told him I thought he ought to stand up. 

Q. Do you know of his having left the city at any time 
and starting home ? 

A. I know I did not see him in his place, and he was ab- 
sent. 

Q. Do you know of any assurance he had from Spencer, 
or any of his friends, that he would be appointed United 
States district attorney if he stood firm ? 

A. I do not know. 

Q. Did Spencer or Whiting ever give you information 
that Duskin would be appointed district attorney ? 

A. I think not. I have no recollection of anything of the 
sort. 

Q. Do you know of Spencer having promised office to any 
person ? 

A. I do not. 

Q. Do you know of Spencer or Hinds, or Whiting, during 
the legislature of 1872-3, having promised the position of col- 
lector of the port of Mobile to any one ? 



XXV11. 

A. Not of my own knowledge ; I was opposed to Spencer's 
election, and had but little to do with him ; the respectable 
portion of the Republican party of the entire State were op- 
posed to the election of Spencer, so far as I know, but we 
were compelled to let matters take their course in order to 
keep the court house body together ; there were some men 
who would not have him, and we were forced into electing 
him ; it was considered a party necessity. 

Q, Was there any understanding among the leading mem- 
bers of the court house body that certain offices had been 
promised certain officers by Gen. Spencer ? 

A. There was a current rumor, which I credited, that his 
influence would be used for the purposes indicated. 

Q. State, as far as you are able, to whom these offices 
were to be secured ? 

A. I do not know that I can fix any one in my mind. 

Q. Was it understood that Mr. Goodloe was to get the 
office of collector of the port of Mobile ? 

A. That was a rumor. 

Q. Was this rumor credited among the members of the 
court house legislature ? 

A. It was among some. 

Q. Did not Mr. Goodloe stand out for some time, declin- 
ing to take a seat in the court house or capitol legislature ? 

A. I do not know ; he did not come to the court house as- 
sembly for some time. 

Q. Did any person, within your knowledge, information or 
belief, use any argument to induce him to go into the court 
house assembly ? 

A. I have no recollection about it. I did not know Good- 
loe before. 

Q. How many persons who were members of the court 
house assembly have since received federal appointments or 
places of preferment, and what are their names ? 

A. Pennington has been appointed governor of Dakota; 
Duskin district attorney U. S., southern district of Alabama ; 
Wilson post master at Montgomery Goodloe collector of the 
port of Mobile ; P. G. Clarke special agent P. O. D. ; Coch- 
ran post master at Selma ; Gen. Dustan treasury agent ; sen- 
ator Baker U. S. marshal, northern district of Alabama; 
Chisholm, a senator, U. S. inspector customs ; Dereen post 
master at Demopolis ; McAfee U. S. district attorney. I can 
remember no others. 

Q. Did Spencer or his immediate friends regard you with 
sufficient confidence to let you into their secrets. 



XXV111. 

A. I think not. What I gathered in regard to the places 
lie promised persons was in current report. 

Q. Have persons, who were active in supporting Spencer, 
since received federal appointments ? 

A. I think they have. Hinds and Whiting were active, 
and have received appointments. 

Q. Do you believe Spencer was the choice of the republi- 
can party of the State for U. S. senator? 

A. I do not. 

Q. Do you believe the court house organization could 
have been maintained until your inaugural, and that of Gov. 
Lewis, without the assistance of Spencer in that body ? 

A. I do not. 

Q. Do you not know that Spencer's friends insisted on his 
election as a sine qua non to their remaining in that body? 

A. I do not know. 

Q. Do you believe it? 

A. I do. 

Q. Upon what is your belief founded ? 

A. From my position in the whole matter and the sur- 
roundings. 

Alex. McKjnstky. 

james e. eagin 

Being sworn, says : 

I am assistant postmaster and cashier of the post office in 
this city. I held the position from 1865 to 1869. I was then 
out of office during Bromberg's administration, but have been 
in office since that time. I was a clerk during the adminis- 
tration of Moulton, and kept the cash accounts of the post 
office proper, but not of the money order department. 

Q. Do you know of any money that was furnished out of 
the post office funds while you were with Moulton, to Hinds, 
or Whiting, or Spencer, or to any other person for Spencer ? 

A. I do not know that it went to Spencer's use. 

Q. Do you know of any money famished from the post 
office for political purposes ? 

A. I know money was furnished by the post office em- 
ployees and deducted from their wages. 

Q. Do you know of any persons whose names were on 
the post office rolls who performed no service? 

A. Spencer Terrill did no service that I know of. John 
Truyear, both colored men, and a white man, whose name I 
can not remember. 

Q. Do you know of any draft drawn by Spencer upon 
Moulton ? 



XXIX. 

A. I do not. 

Q. Do you know of any draft drawn by Spencer in favor 
of Moulton ? 

A. I know of a draft drawn in favor of Spencer, and by 
him endorsed to Moulton. The draft amounted to about 
$2,000 or $2,200. The draft was used to replace money that 
had been taken out of the drawer to be used lor political pur- 
poses, as I understood, the draft remaining as so much cash 
or government funds, which had been taken out and the draft 
deposited in its stead. 

Q. What political purposes was the money used for ? 

A. All the information I have on the subject was derived 
from Moulton. 

Q. Where did Moulton keep his accounts ? 

A. His money order accounts were kept with Miller & 
Co., and the post office deposits were made in the U. S. de- 
pository in the custom house. The draft I have spoken of 
was cashed out of the post office money proper. 

Q. Do you remember any other draft cashed by Mr. 
Moulton out of government funds ? 

A. I know of only one more, which was drawn by Lou. 
H. Mayer for $25, which I think was signed by him, as chair- 
man of, I understood it, of a political organization. 

Q. During the administration of Moulton who did you 
understand had control of or the dispensing of federal offices ? 

A. Spencer, as I understood. 

Jas. R. Eagin. 

LOU. H. MAYER 

Being sworn, says : 

I hold the position of collector of internal revenue, and 
have held it since May, 1873. I was promoted from the of- 
fice of assessor to that of collector by the commissioner of 
internal revenue. I do not think Mr. Spencer had anything 
to do with my promotion. I learned he was not in Washing- 
ton when the appointment was made. 

By Gen. Morgan — 

Q. In 1872, who was the most influential republican in 
Alabama in reference to the dispensing of federal patronage? 

A. I know what is expected for me to say. But I do not 
know. 

Q. Who was the most influential in 1873 ? 

A. I think Mr. Hays, as he had Reynolds appointed con- 
trary to Spencer's wishes. After that time, Spencer was most 
influential in relation to dispensing patronage of all the con- 
gressional delegation. 



XXX. 

Q. Through whose influence did Mr. Goodloe get his ap- 
pointment? 

A . Through Mr. Spencer's, though Sheets and White as- 
sisted. 

Q. Through whom did Wickersham obtain his appoint- 
ment? 

A. I don't think he had any friends but Turner. He was 
opposed by the whole delegation. 

Q. Were you in Montgomery at the time the election for 
U. S. senator was pending in the court house assembly ? 

A. I was there on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, 
Spencer was elected on Tuesday. 

Q. Did you see Spencer, Hinds and Whiting there ? 

A. I did. 

Q. Had you received a request to go to Montgomery ? 

A. No, sir. I will take that back. I may have "been re- 
quested by my friends here to go there. 

Q. What was your object in going to Montgomery ? 

A. To assist in Spencer's election. 

Q. Did you carry any money with you ? 

A. Just enough to pay my expenses. I borrowed to get 
back, or I think so. 

Q. Do you know of any money having been used in se- 
curing Spencer's election ? 

A. I do not. It was rumored that Warner or Wicker- 
sham was about to buy up some of our members. I went to 
Spencer and told him of it. He said he could not help it, 
and to be careful not to make any promises. 

Q. Was General Spencer before that a friend of yours? 

A. I have always regarded him as one of the best friends 
in the world. I would do as much for him as any man in the 
world. 

Q. After Spencer's election, did you return to Montgom- 
ery in the interest of Spencer? 

A. I returned in my own interest to secure^the office of 
revenue collector. 

Q. Did you meet J. J. Moulton in Montgomery ? 

A. I did. I met him on the street leading to the capitol. 
He asked me where Spencer was. I told him he was in a 
saloon or restaurant. He asked me to go to him and tell him 
to send him what he promised. I went to Spencer and told 
him what Moulton said. He replied that he would see Moul- 
ton afterwards. Moulton came in and J saw Spencer hand 
him a package of money. Some time later, when we returned 
to Mobile, Moulton brought me a telegram, written in cypher, 
from General Spencer, dated at Washington, requesting 



XXXI. 

Moulton to return the money he had loaned him ; that he 
would be in Montgomery shortly, on Friday, or some day 
soon after, and to bring or send the money he had loaned 
him, that he would need it. Moulton then informed me that 
it would be very hard for him to raise that amount of money 
at this time ; that he expected to have a longer time. 

Q. About what time was Moulton arrested for defrauding 
the post office department ? 

A. It was on the following Monday after Petherbridge's 
arrival. 

Q. You say Moulton brought the telegram to you ? 

A. He brought it to me to read. It was to the effect that 
he was to bring or send the money to Montgomery. 

Q. Did Moulton ever bring any other dispatch for you to 
read ? 

A. I do not know. 

Q. When did you inform Moulton you had a key to Spen- 
cer's dispatches ? 

A. I did not inform him, that I recollect. I think he was 
present when we bought the three dictionaries that were keys. 

R. Do you know any reasons why a demand of a debt 
due from Moulton to Spencer should be sent in cypher ? 

A. Yes, because General Spencer would hesitate to make 
a public demand upon his personal friend (as Moulton then 
was) for money loaned him purely out of friendship, and I 
know that General Spencer agrees with me in not believing 
that our telegrams are kept as confidential in the telegraph 
office. 

Q. To whom were the three dictionaries given ? 

A. One to Spencer, one to Whiting, and I retained the 
other. H. Ray Myers may have had one. I do not know 
who had them, so many of us understood it. I have not my 
copy now. I do not remember having given Moulton one. 
He knew the cypher as well as I did, and might have bought 
a dictionary. He might now have my copy. 

Q. If Moulton knew the cypher why did he come to you to 
read the dispatch ? 

A. I had the book. 

Q. You have stated that you know this money had been 
loaned by Spencer to Moulton, and that it has not been re- 
paid, except $1,500. How do you know this? 

A. Moulton and Spencer have both told me so. I have 
no other knowledge of the matter. Moulton told me in a 
buggy riding about the time of his troubles that he had paid 
Spencer only $1,500 of the loan. 

Q. Did you aid Moulton in getting out of his troubles ? 



XXX11. 

A. I aided him all I could. I endorsed for him to the 
extent of $1,000 and afterwards paid the amount. 

Q. When did Spencer tell you Moulton had repaid the 
loan? 

A. He told me in March of this year. 

Q. Had he ever told you so before ? 

A. Just on the eve of the last State election, in October, 
1874, he asked me as he had done before what were the 
chances of getting the $750 out of Moulton. He had written 
to me before this about it. I am not positive. 

Q. Did Moulton go to Montgomery to pay the money as 
requested by Spencer? 

A. He went to Montgomery, but don't know whether he- 
paid it or not. 

Q. If Moulton told you he had paid the money to whom 
did he say he paid it ? 

A. I don't remember in whose hands Moulton told me he 
paid it or when. . 

Q. Before this had you ever received any money from 
Moulton? 

A. I frequently borrowed $50 or other small amounts from, 
him and returned the same. I do not remember that I re- 
ceived any larger amounts from him. 

Q. Did you ever collect a draft or drafts drawn on Moul- 
ton ? 

A. I may have collected a draft for $50, while we were run- 
ning the Herald. I am positive for no larger amount. I 
never saw any draft drawn by Spencer, Hinds or Whiting, on 
Moulton. 

Q. At the time Moulton asked you to ask Spencer to send 
him what he promised, did you know what Moulton meant ? 

A. I did not. Moulton told me afterwards that it was 
$2,250 that Spencer loaned him. 

Q. Did you know Mr. Widmer ? 

A. I did. 

Q. Do you know Mr. Fritz ? 

A. I do. 

Q. Do you know whether Mr. Spencer got any money from 
Mr. Fritz? 

A. I know he did not. 

Q. How do you know it ? 

A. Because Spencer wrote me he had not got any from 
him, and Mr. Brasher, the Eevenue Agent, informed me he 
had investigated the case and that he fonnd no evidence that 
Spencer ever got any money from him . 



XXX111. 

Q. Do you know what was Mr. Widmer's reputation as an 
officer ? 

A . He was, in my opinion, one of the best officers in the 
country, and a correct man. I arrived at this opinion sim- 
ply from the examination Mr. Widmer permitted me to make 
of his books and from the clear and comprehensive instruc- 
tions he gave me verbally as to my duties as collector to 
which office I daily expected to be appointed. 

Q. If Widmer were to tell you on his dying bed that he 
had loaned Spencer $5,100 and Spencer were to tell you that 
he had not, which one of them would you believe? 

A. I would believe Mr. Spencer. 

Q. What men here (in Mobile) are in federal positions who 
were members of the court house assembly and voted for 
Spencer ? 

A. J. C. Goodloe, Collector of Customs, Geo. M. Duskin, 
United States District Attorney, C. W. Dustan, Special Treas- 
ury Agent; Mr. Chisholrn, Inspector of Customs. Goodloe 
was appointed through Spencer's, and White's and Sheets' in- 
fluence; Gen. Duskin and Dustan through Mr. White's and 
Mr. Hays'. 1 think Mr. Chisholrn was retained in his place 
because he was a good officer and needed no influence to re • 
tain his place. 

Q. Was Mr. Chisholrn in office prior to the election of 
Spencer ? 

A. I think he was. 

Q. Had he ever been suspended ? 

A, I do not know. 

Q Do you know whether he had a position in the custom 
house when he was in the court house assembly ? 

A. I do not. 

By Mr. Price — 

Q. How long have you known Gen. Spencer intimately ? 

A. Probably since 1870. 

Q. What is the ground of your intimacy ? 

A. Congeniality of sentiment and feeling. 

Q. When and how did you discover that congeniality of 
sentiment and feeling ? 

A. In 1870-71, and from personal association afterwards. 

Q. Where was that personal association ? 

A. In Washington. 

Q. For how long ? 

A. For three months. We have associated since. 

Q. Was the attachment mutual ? 

A. I think it was. 



XXXIV. 

Q. How do you know it was mutual? 

A. I think I have his confidence as much as any man in 
Alabama. 

Q. How has he shown it ? 

A. By entrusting me with his confidence. 

Q. Have you any reason to feel under obligations to Spen- 
cer, except from your social relations with him ? 

A. Oh, yes ! He got me the appointment of assessor of rev- 
enue in the year 1871. 

Lou. H. Mayer. 

GEO. L. PUTNAM 

Being sworn, says : 

I was post master in Mobile and went out of office when 
Moulton went in. I was removed upon the recommendation 
of Spencer and Turner, without there being any defalcation 
on my part. I received a complimentary letter from the De- 
partment as to my conduct of the office. There were no 
charges against me or complaints from the Department, or any 
other source. 

Q. Who was the person who was in Mobile manipulating 
the matter of your removal? 

A. H. Ray Meyers was the principal man, and repre- 
sented himself as the agent or spokesman of Senator Spencer. 
Lou. Mayer also participated, but not so actively. 

Q. "What demands did Mayer make of you with the under- 
standing that if you did not pay you would be removed. 

A. He demanded considerable sums of money from me. 
He obtained pretty much all I had. In one item I paid $10 
per week to support a paper run in the interest of Spencer as 
against Warner. 

Q. Did Meyer make any complaint of your politics. 

A. I became aware of the fact that Meyer represented to 
others and to Spencer that I was not loyal to Spencer's inter- 
est, and could not be trusted to carry out his policy. In a 
conversation had with Spencer about a year ago, he informed 
me that Meyer had deceived him in this matter. 

Q. State as fully as you are prepared to do, any demands 
that were made by Meyer upon Moulton, as a consideration of 
his being appointed your successor as postmaster of Mobile, 
and what amounts of money were, or were promised to be paid 
by Moulton? 

A. John J. Moulton at that time was money order clerk 
in the post office under me. Meyer lodged and roomed at his 
house. Moulton's account at one time was short about $1,600. 



XXXV. 

This was discovered by Mr. Eagan when I was in Washing- 
ton. Moulton borrowed the money and made up the deficit. 
I was aware that he was an applicant for the office of post 
master of Mobile. I notified the Department that I had re- 
moved Moulton for this and other causes, I also notified 
Spencer and the President in person of these facts before 
Moulton was appointed. I knew that Meyer was drawing 
on Moulton heavily for money, representing to him all the 
time that he would get the office. It was understood here 
amongst the Republicans that Spencer could only be controled 
through Meyers. Whatever Meyers promised, it was under- 
stood that Spencer would carry out. 

Q. Do you remember any instance when Moulton paid 
Meyers any money ? 

A. A dispatch was sent by H. Ray Meyers to Moulton, 
which was seen by Mr. M. C. Osborne, requiring Moulton to 
send him $500; that that would fix Turner all right, referring 
to Moulton's appointment as postmaster and my removal. I 
remember that one of Spencer's complaints to me, when I 
was in Washington, was that Meyers represented to him that I 
was too stingy to contribute what I should; that I did not do 
my share in that line ; that I had refused to make assessments 
on my clerks, which were demanded, or complained that I 
had not done by Meyers. I told my clerks that they could 
pay of their own accord if they desired to do so ; that I would 
not require it of them. 

George L. Putnam. 

JAMES S. PERRIN 

Being sworn, says : 

I reside in Monroe county ; I am a Republican and have 
never voted any other ticket. 

By Mr. Little— 

Q. Have you ever held any office under the federal gov- 
ernment? 

A. I have held two ; special assistant assessor of revenue 
for the first Alabama district, and deputy United States mar- 
shal for the Southern District of Alabama. I was appointed 
assistant assessor of revenue in July, 1872, and continued in 
office until January 1st, 1873. I was appointed marshal in 
October, 1874. 

Q. Through whose influence were you appointed to office? 

A. Through George E. Spencer, at that time United States 
Senator. 

Q. Why were you appointed ? 



XXXVI. 

A. To assist in organizing the Republican party, and in 
Spencer's re-election to the United States Senate, by assist- 
ing in securing the election of members to the legislature 
favorable to him. 

Q. Were you at Montgomery in 1872, during the time the 
court house assembly was in session, before and during the- 
time the election of Spencer was pending ? 

A. I was. 

Q. What was the object and purpose of the court house 
assembly ? 

A. It was to place the legislature in the hands of the Re- 
publican party and elect Spencer. 

Q. Why was it necessary to organize at the court house 
for those purposes ? 

A. We knew the Senate was Democratic, and unless Mil- 
ler and Chisholm were seated, who we knew were defeated^ 
we would not have a quorum of Republican Senators. 

Q. Was it conceded that Miller and Chisholm were not 
elected ? 

A. It was so conceded by the leading Republicans who 
were familiar with the facts. It was considered a party ne- 
cessity that Miller and Chisholm be seated. 

Q. Was there anything done by Gen. Spencer and his 
friends previous to the general election, by which to secure a 
majority of Republican members in the general assembly? 

A. There was, by his friends. 

Q. What was done ? 

A. I wrote to Gen. Spencer in Lou Mayer's presence, that 
under the Enforcement Act we could get affidavits and have 
Democratic members arrested and detained until the legisla- 
ture was organized by the Republicans, and his election as 
Senator secured. Lou Mayer was present when I wrote the 
letter. I read it to him and he approved its contents, and 
wrote a letter to Spencer himself, stating to me that it was in 
furtheiance of the plan I proposed. 

Q. Afterwards was this plan acted on, and if so, when and 
where, and what was done ? 

A. The missing members were arrested while on their way 
to Montgomery, at Selma, and were carried via Meridian to 
Mobile where they waived an examination, gave bond and 
were released. No indictment was ever found against them, 
and there was no further prosecution. I do not think it was 
ever intended that they should be indicted or prosecuted. 

Q. Was there any understanding between you and Spencer 
by which you were to be appointed United States Commis- 



XXXVII. 

sioner, for the purpose of issuing warrants to make arrests in 
the furtherance of Spencer's election ? 

A. There was an understanding. I think I have letters to 
that effect from Spencer, which I will furnish the committee 
if I can find them. These letters were received after my first 
letter to Spencer suggesting the plan of arresting parties un- 
der the Enforcement Act mentioned heretofore in my tes- 
timony. 

Q. Were you ever appointed United States Commissioner? 

A. I was not. Judge Basteed alleged that it could only 
be done in term time, and the appointment could not be made 
in time to carry out the plan. 

Q. Was J. J. Hinds in Montgomery during the session of 
the court house assembly, and pending the election of 
Spencer ? 

A. He was. 

Q. What was the relation between him and Spencer dur- 
ing the pendency of his election, and what post did he take in 
securing his election ? 

A. He was very intimate with Spencer and occupied the 
same rooms at the hotel. They occupied three rooms, one for 
private interviews, another for cigars and whisky to which a 
man attended, and the other I suppose was their bed room. 
These are all the rooms I saw them in. Hinds was considered 
as Spencer's private cashier. 

Q. By whom was he so considered ? 

A. By the leading members of the Republican party inside 
and outside of the legislature. 

Q. What were your relations to Hinds and Spencer at 
that time ? 

A. Very intimate ; but Spencer committed himself more 
confidentially to Hinds that any other person. 

Q. Were your surroundings and position of a character 
that admitted of your knowing the means by which Spencer's 
election was secured ? 

A. They were. 

Q. Will you state as near as you can recollect whether any 
of the Republican members hesitated to go into the court 
house assembly, or threatened to leave, and if any, what in- 
ducements were offered them to take seats therein or remain? 

A. Thomas D. McCaskie hesitated to go into that body 
because he stated it to be illegal on account of the want of a 
quorum in the Senate, and that he believed the capitol the 
legal place of assembling. Meyers and I induced him to go 
there because we stated it would be the salvation of the Re- 
publican party, and we also promised to secure him, through 



XXXV111. 

v 



Spencer, the office of Weigher and Guager of Customs of the 
port of Mobile. We were authorized to make the promise by 
Hinds for Spencer. McCaskie did afterwards take his seat in 
the court house assembly and there remained. Jacob Black,, 
of Barbour, threatened to leave and go to the capitol. I saw 
Gilmore, of Sumter, come out of Hinds' room with $300 in 
his hand. He stated to me this was the amount. I asked 
him what he was going to do with it. He said it was for 
Black. I remarked that that disease was becoming infectious 
and must be stopped. 

Q. What did you mean by "disease ?" 

A. Whenever a member of the court house assembly be- 
came dissatisfied he was called a sick or diseased member . 
The medicine given was greenbacks. 

Q- Did Black remain? 

A. Black recovered. He remained with the courthouse 
assembly, and I know nothing of his disaffection. 

Q. Proceed with the other names? 

A. Johnson and Walker, or Goldsby, all of Dallas, met 
me on the street in front of the Madison House. They asked 
me to loan them money, stating they wanted to go to Selma. 
I told them I had none with me then. One of them said he 
was sick of the way white Republicans were treating colored 
Republicans, especially of the way Turner had been defeated 
for Congress. They stated that on this account that they 
were in favor of electing Turner to the United States Senate, 
and if they would go to the capitol the Democrats would vote 
for Turner before they would for Spencer. I told them if they 
were sick Hinds had some medicine that would cure them, 
and to go up and see him at the Madison House. They went 

Q. Did you see them afterwards ? 

A. In about an hour afterwards I met them on the steps 
of the hotel with money ifi their hands. I asked them if they 
got any. Walker or Goldsby said he had got enough to take 
him to Selma. Johnson added, "and to come back again, 
winking," giving me to understand he had gotten a good deal 
more. I heard no more complaint from them, and they were 
afterwards warm supporters of Spencer. 

Q. Did J. C. Goodloe take his seat in the conrt house as- 
sembly at its organization ? 

A. He did not. 

Q. What part did he take in the organization of the leg- 
islature or election of Spencer ? 

A. He was regarded by the leading republicans as a se- 
cret agent of Spencer to ascertain and report the proceedings 
of the capitol legislature, which he did. 



XXXIX. 

Q. Was it understood that he would take his seat iu the 
court house assembly when Spencer's election came up ? 

A. It was understood that he would come down and re- 
cord his vote for Spencer when needed. 

Q. Was any promises made in consideration of his servi- 
ces for Spencer and his vote for him ? 

A. It was understood that Spencer would use or had used 
his influence in receiving the payment of certain large war- 
claims Goodloe had before the court of claims in Washing- 
ton. There was also promised the collectorship of the port 
of Mobile. 

Q. Do you know of any moneys being used or promises 
being made to members of the General Assembly directly or 
indirectly to induce them to support Spencer for United States 
senator? 

A. I met E. J. Mancil on the street, near the Madison 
House in Montgomery, and told him that he might take a lit- 
tle snuff and sneeze as well as other people. He replied that 
he made nothing out of the Stanton legislature, but signified 
his willingness to go ; at the same time telling me that if I 
ever divuiged upon him he would kill me. I told him that 
he would then be guilty of two felonies, "murder" and "bri- 
bery," and he would be sure to go to the penitentiary. I 
then took him up and introduced him to Hinds and Spencer, 
telling Hinds in an under tone that he was a fit subject, I 
left the room after we had all taken drinks and cigars, leaving 
him with Spencer and Hinds. Mancil left the city and re- 
mained absent until after Spencer's election and the legisla- 
tive troubles were settled. 

Q. Was Mancill a democrat or republican ? 

A. He was a democrat and a member of the capitol legis- 
lature. 

Q. What was the object in having him leave the city? 

A. To destroy the quorum of the capitol legislature, in 
order to make it appear that the court house legislature had 
the strongest claims to legality. 

Q. Were means used to get other democratic members 
from the capitol legislature for the purpose first stated ? If 
so, what were the means and who were the members ? 

A. Yes, William Stribbling of Washington county. I went 
to Hinds and got twenty dollars from him, telling him I 
wanted to inveigle Stribbling. another member of the capitol 
legislature, into a game of poker and let him win ; it was to 
keep him away from the capitol It was the purpose to let 
this be but a bait so that we could get him there again, and 



xl. 

at the proper time get up a game and get him drunk and keep 
him away from the legislature. 

Q. State whether you carried out this purpose. 

A. I went to the Exchange and lost the money in playing 
poker with Stribbling and McHugh, in Stribbling's room ; I 
prolonged the game for some time in order to ascertain if 
they had a taste for card playing ; I lost more than the twenty 
dollars, giving my due bill for the balance ; I found that 
Stribbling liked the game and could be manipulated in this 
manner, but McHugh took no further stock. 

Q. How did you further carry out your plan? 

A. Lou Mayer, George Ellison and I, after I communi- 
cated this to Hinds, went up into the top story of the Madison 
House ; Hinds came up where we were and gave Lou Mayer 
$100, who gave it to George Ellison, remarking to Hinds that 
if these fellows don't work Stribbling nobody can ; this was the 
evening before Spencer's election. 

Q. How did you use this money ? 

A. We went "to the Kialto, a gambling saloon, and George 
Ellison brought Stribbling into the bar, where we took a drink ; 
I called for beer and they called for a different drink ; I saw 
the clerk handling two or three different bottles, and I feared 
something was wrong and left him with Ellison ; from the 
manipulation of the bottles by the clerk in mixing Stribbling's 
drink, I preferred to go no further in the matter ; Ellison took 
Stribbling off, telling me he would fix him ; I saw nothing of 
Stribbling for several days, but the next morning Ellison told 
me that Stribbling was all right, and that we need not give 
ourselves any further trouble about him ; we succeeded in 
keeping Stribbling away from the capitol legislature as long as 
it was desired by the friends of Spencer. 

Q. After the plan of the attorney-general was submitted 
for the fusion of the two legislatures, was there any plan 
agreed on among leading republicans in the consolidated leg- 
islature in order to make it appear that the court house assem- 
bly was a legal organization ? 

A. Yes, by the seating of Miller in the Senate, at all haz- 
ards, in the place of Martin. 

Q. Was that plan carried out ? 

A. It was. 

Q. If you know how it was carried out, state how. 

A. Only from hearsay , I had left the city. 

Q. What became of Ohisholm on the consolidation of the 
two Legislatures ? 

A. He left the Senate and resumed his duties in the cus- 
tom house. 



xli. 

Q. Did be offer any contest for his seat? 

A. He did not ; it was admitted by Cliisholm and all oth- 
ers that he had no right to the seat; he took his seat in the 
court house legislature to make a quorum and to elect Spen- 
cer. 

Q. Was it understood by the republicans that there was 
no quorum in the senate of the court house legislature, and 
that Chisholm and Miller were seated to make a quorum ? 

A. It was. 

Q. State, if you know, any persons who were promised 
positions or were given money for their support and influence 
in Spencer's election ? 

A. Lou H. Mayer, myself, M. G. Candee, George Ellison, 
Goodloe, McCaskie, Wilson, P. G. Clarke, Duskin, McAfee, 
Cochran, McKinstry, John Lamb, Whiting and Foster were 
promised offices, and others whose names I can not recall. 
Those who were given money I have already spoken of, so far 
as I remember. 

Q. In the order in which you have named them, give the 
offices promised. 

A. Lou H. Mayer was appointed internal revenue collector. 
I wrote to Spencer at the request of Mayer, asking for his 
appointment. Spencer wrote to Mayer and told him to be 
quiet, his appointment would be made. He showed me the 
letter ; and to show me that Spencer was true to his promise 
he was assured that his name had been printed on the letter 
heads for this district by the department at Washington. 
This was shortly after Spencer's election. Mayer told me 
himself Spencer promised him the office. I was assured by 
Lou Mayer on behalf of Spencer that I would get the deputy 
collectorship. Candee came to me and asked me if I w 7 ould 
withdraw my claims for the deputy collectorship in his favor, 
and Mayer would accept, he (Candee) would influence Rey- 
nolds to appoint me to a good position in the custom house 
with like salary, which was agreed upon. Candee subse- 
quently informed me that Reynolds would appoint me to the 
position of inspector of customs, and I refused to accept the 
position. 

George Ellison was to be appointed deputy collector of 
customs in Rugg's place, for services rendered in assisting in 
procuring Spencer's election. He worked with the weak- 
kneed democrats. The office was abolished or consolidated-, 
and Ellison was tendered an inspectorship and commissioner, 
but resigned at my suggestion. I know Ellison was recog- # 
nized by Spencer as one of his friends at Montgomery pend- 
ing his ^election. 



xlii. 

Goodloe and McCaskie I have heretofore named. 

Wilson, Clarke, Duskin, McAfee, Cochran and Whiting 
were all provided for as promised. 

McKinstry, Lamb and Foster were not provided for as 
promised. 

Q. Who was regarded as the dispenser of federal patron- 
age pending Spencer's election as senator. 

A. Senator Spencer. 

Q. What contributions were levied, if any, for political 
purposes upon federal office holders? 

A. From five to ten per cent, were levied on the monthly 
salaries of federal officers. These funds were supposed to go 
into the hands of the treasurer of the State executive com- 
mittee ; but I never saw any of it and do not know what be- 
came of it. 

Q. Do you know where the money come from that w r as 
expended at Montgomery to assist in Spencer's election, or 
any portion of it ? 

A. I heard a considerable portion of it came from J". J. 
Moulton to J. J. Hinds. I received my information from the 
friends and supporters of Spencer. 

Q. Was Spencer the choice of the republican party for 
senator ? 

A. His support came from the office holding element, or 
those expecting office. 

Q. Why was it the office holders submitted to contribu- 
tions ? 

A. Because their tenure of office depended on Spencer's 
will. 

Q. Why was it the office holders supported Spencer so 
unanimously ? 

A. Because the devotion to Spencer's interest, who con- 
trolled the patronage of the State, was the surest way to re- 
tain their places. 

Q. Do you know of troops having been brought into the 
State just before the general election in 1872, for the purpose 
of influencing voters ? 

A. I do. 

Q. State freely and particularly about it. 

A. Troops were brought here at that time for the alleged 
purpose of protecting the federal revenue officers in the per- 
formance of their duties. This was the ostensible object, but 
the real object was to parade the troops through the country 
with United States Marshals having pretended warrants and 
exhibiting them for the purpose of intimidating the people 
and driving persons from the country. These warrants were 



xliii. 

taken by the marshals into neighborhoods and exhibited to 
persons who would inform the parties that the marshal was 
after them. They would then leave the country or get out of 
the way. The "warrants" were simply papers folded with no 
writing on the inside, but names were on the outside on the 
folds. Spencer wrote to Mayer that he had procured troops 
to be under the control of the revenue officers, and Mayer so 
informed me. Acting on this information I made a requisi- 
tion for troops, and proceeded with them and the marshal, 
who had the pretended warrants and exhibited them as I have 
indicated. 

Q. Was there any outrage upon which this requisition 
was based, or was there any necessity for the protection of 
officers ? 

A. There was no real necessity for the troops. 

Q. Was there any pretended or alleged necessity ? If so, 
state what it was. 

A. There was. I shot a hole through my own hat with 
my own pistol and wrote to Lou H. Mayer that I had been 
set upon by men in ambush and K. K. K., which he perfectly 
understood was not the case by a previous understanding. I 
had the troops with me at that time ; I was in advance and 
out of their sight when I shot the hole in my hat. I ran 
back and deployed them as skirmishers and we advanced 
upon the supposed K. K. K's with an intrepidity that reflected 
credit upon the troops, who knew no better than that there 
was a real foe before them. 

Q. Why did you do this? 

A. It was to satisfy the department at Washington that 
the presence of troops was necessary, and to prevent their 
recall. 

Q. Was this reported to the department at Washington 
as a real outrage ? 

A. It was. I saw it mentioned in several Northern pa- 
pers. 

Q. Were the troops retained ? 

A. They were kept by me as long as they could be made 
use of as a political machine. 

Q. Who reported this pretended outrage to Washington? 

A. I made a report to Mayer and he reported to Wash- 
ington. 

Q. In whose interest were you and Mayer acting? 

A. In George E. Spencer's ; to secure at all hazards a 
legislature that would elect him to the U. S. Senate. 

Q. What connection did Spencer have with the execution 
of this plan of operations ? 



xliv. 

A. He was acquainted with our plan of operations and 
was instrumental in having troops placed at our disposal to 
carry out the same. 

Q. In your efforts to reduce the capitol legislature below 
a quorum, what other acts were done? 

A. None that were carried into effect; it was understood 
that if it became necessary, that I should go to Evergreen 
and send a telegram to Mr. Barnett, of Monroe county, that 
his wife was in a dying condition, and to come home immedi- 
ately; the dispatch was to be signed " Nick Stallworth," to 
make it more plausible. 

Q. Do you know any active part taken by Lou Mayer to 
promote Spencer's election other than you have stated ? 

A. None ; only that he stated to me that Black had tend- 
ered his resignation as revenue officer, in blank ; it was un- 
derstood the resignation was not to go into effect unless the 
right of Black to his seat in the Senate was contested on ac- 
count of holding federal office, when it was to date the day 
before his election as senator in 1872 ; this took place in 
Montgomery, pending Spencer's election. 

Q. What called you to Montgomery during the organiza- 
tion of the court house assembly in 1872 ? 

A. I was there, as were all the federal office holders, in 
the interest of Spencer ; we wanted to keep our places, and 
we knew the best way to do so was to work for Spencer, and 
if he did not reward us he would go back upon his promises, 
which he did in some cases. 

Q. Did Hinds or Spencer write you to come to Montgom- 
ery? 

A. Hinds wrote me to come or be there ; I have not the 
letter with me ; I may have it at home ; Lou Mayer told me 
Spencer said he expected us all to come up. 

Q. Did you meet J. J. Moulton at Montgomery ? 

A. I did. 

Q. Did you see him using money, or hear him say any- 
thing about using it in the interest of Spencer? 

A. I did ; he owed me some money and I asked him for 
it; he said he wou.d have to use all he had or could get in 
the Spencer election. 

Q. Do you know any thing concerning the proposed letting 
a contract for carrying the mails on the Alabama river ? 

A. It was understood between Hinds and myself that 
Spencer's influence was pledged to secure me a contract for 
carrying the mail on the Alabama river, between Montgomery 
and Mobile, in the year 1873. 

Q. Why was this contract tendered you? 



xlv. 

A. In part as a consideration of my support of Spencer 
for the United States senate. 

Q. Did any thing pass between you and Hinds in refer- 
ence to carrying the mail on this route? 

A. The understanding was that I was to have the contract 
and I made an arrangement with the Mobile Trade Company 
for carrying the mail, by which I would have left a profit of 
several thousand dollars ; I informed Hinds of this fact, and 
wrote him urging the establishment of the route and my ap- 
pointment according to the understanding; Hinds answered 
me, telling me that I would have to divide ; I wrote I would 
not divide. 

Q. What did you mean by ''divide ?" 

A. That he would take the greater part of the profits. 

Q. Did you get the contract? 

A. I did not ; the mail is being carried over that route at 
this time. 

Q. Did you ever receive any instructions as to troops un- 
der your control, and if so, w T hat were they? 

A. 1 received instructions from Lou Mayer, the collector 
of revenue under whom I was acting, not to use the troops 
for political purposes ; which meant, by a previous under- 
standing with Mayer, that I should use them for political pur- 
poses, as there was no necessity for them. 

Q. Why was that dispatch sent you? 

A. It was to make the dispatch a matter of record to sat- 
isfy the department, and which he afterwards told me he 
made known to the department. The reason why the tele- 
gram was first sent was on account of a difficulty I had with 
a newspaper man at Evergreen, who was publishing a news- 
paper at that place, and who had written an article charging 
that the troops were being used for political purposes. 

Q. In your testimony on yesterday, you spoke of the peo- 
ple being intimidated by the presence of federal troops and 
the warrants displayed by the marshals, what do you mean 
by "intimidation?" 

A. They were more afraid of arrest by troops and trial by 
federal judges, than the negroes are of the supposed kuklus* 
I arrive at this conclusion from handling troops in the coun- 
try. 

James S. Perrin. 

WM. R. CHISHOLM" 

Being sworn, says : 

I reside in Florence, Ala., when at home. I am inspector 



xlvi. 

of customs at this port. I have held that position since 
August, 1872. 

Q. Did you hold any position in the State government at 
any time in the year 18/2? 

A. I was a candidate for the senate in that year, in the 
counties of Limestone and Lauderdale. I received informa- 
tion that justified me in going to Montgomery, and after ar- 
riving there, further investigation was made by a committee 
appointed by the court house senate. They made a favora- 
ble report, and I was seated in the court house senate. 

Q. Who was your opponent in the canvass ? 

A. Daniel Coleman. 

Q Were you elected or defeated in that election ? 

A. My impression is that I was legally elected. I arrived 
at this conclusion after arriving at Montgomery, and frauds 
were made known to me. 

Q. You did not think, before you went to Montgomery, 
you were elected ? 

A. I did not know definitely. I thought so from rumor. 

Q. How many votes did you receive ? 

A. I do not remember. 

Q. How many did Coleman receive ? 

A. I do not know. 

Q. What information did you receive that took you to 
Montgomery ? 

A. I can not say definitely from whom I received letters. 

Q. Do you remember the nature of the information ? 

A. It was of a general character. 

Q. Did any one advise you that it was necessary, as a 
party necessity, that you come? 

A. I did not receive such advice. 

Q. What was the nature of the information that caused 
you to go to Montgomery? 

A. I can't tell definitely the nature of the information. 

Q. Was it suggested that you could get a seat if you came ? 

A. I had good cause to go there and inaugurate the inves- 
tigation. I did not seat myself. 

Q. What was the nature of the information that carried 
yon to Montgomery ? 

A. I received a communication that I might be seated on 
a thorough investigation. The investigation was inaugurated 
and I was seated. 

Q. Were you seated in the court house assembly ? 

A. I was. 

Q. How long were you in Montgomery before you took 
your seat in the court house assembly ? 



lxvii. 

A. I was seated in the early days of the assembly. 

Q. Were you seated the second day ? 

A. I can not say. I do not think it the first or second 
day. An investigation was had. 

Q. What kind of an investigation ? 

A. A committee was appointed that investigated the mat- 
ter. 

Q. What did you lay before the committee? 

A. I had not a great deal to do with it. I had witnesses 
examined. Mr. J. H. Price was one, and Mr. M. Goldsmith 
was another. 

Q. Did you produce these witnesses before the committee ? 

A. I did. 

Q. What did you propose to prove by them ? 

A. To give statements in regard to the election. It was 
stated a great many votes were thrown out, and it was said 
the same cause existed for throwing out votes for Coleman as 
for myself. These witnesses had stated this to me. 

Q. Who was on this committee ? 

A. I only remember Mr. JDoster. 

Q. What was the report ? 

A. It was favorable. 

Q. Is it in the journals of the court house senate ? 

A. I do not know. 

Q. Was a journal kept by that body ? 

A. There was. 

Q. In the investigation, were the ballots before the com- 
mittee? 

A. I think not. 

Q. What was the nature of the testimony ? 

A. A great many votes were thrown out that should not 
have been. I don't know how long the committee was inves- 
tigating. 

Q. Did you ever give any notice of contest ? 

A. I did not. 

Q. Did you ever hold any certificate of election ? 

A. I did not. 

Q. Did Mr. Coleman hold a certificate ? 

A. I think he did. 

Q. How long did you retain your seat in the court house 
assembly ? 

A. Until the compromise of Attorney General Williams 
was agreed upon. 

Q. Did you apply for your seat in the consolidated legis- 
lature ? 

A. I did not. 



xbiii. 

Q. Did you not fail to claim your seat because you knew 
you were not elected ? 

A. I did not. I thought I was elected, but I knew there 
was no use to contest in a democratic senate. 
Q. You say the senate was democratic ? 
A. My impression is that by the time I could get up a 
contest the senate would be democratic. 

Q. Do you not know the senate was republican at that 
time? 

A. Mr. Gilmore died and left a democratic majority. I 

believe on the first reorganization the senate was republican.. 

Q. Was it not a conceded fact by the republicans that you 

could not successfully contest the seat of senator Coleman ? 

A. I did not feel justified, from my impressions, in making 

the contest. 

Q. Why did you not feel justified in making the contest if 
you believed you were elected ? 

A. I knew there was a good deal of expense connected 
with the contest, and I felt satisfied I would not be seated. 

Q. Was it not because you felt your opponent had a bet- 
ter claim to the seat? 

A. It was because of the expense, delay, and other causes* 
Q. Did your opponent, Daniel Coleman, have a certificate 
of election before and after the fasion of the two bodies? 
A. He did. 
Q. Is he still senator ? 
A. He is. 

Q. Has any one ever contested his seat ? 
A. I think not. 

Q. If you had not taken your seat in the court house leg- 
islature, would there have been a quorum in that body ? 
A. I think there would have been a quorum without me. 
Q. W^as Baker a member of the court house assembly 
from the 3d district, and if so, did he contest his seat in the 
fusion legislature ? 

A. Be was, but did not contest his seat. 
Q. What was the object of the meeting of the court house 
assembly ? 

A. To counteract the movement of the democrats in seat- 
ing members not entitled to seats. 

Q. W T ere there not members of the court house assembly 
who were not elected, or who failed to contest for seats in the 
fusion legislature? 

A. There were members in the court house assembly who 
did not contest for seats in that body, and who did not apply 
for seats. 



xlix. 

Q. If you and Mr. Baker and Mr. Miller had not taken 
your seats in the court house assembly, would there have 
been a quorum in that body ? 

A. There would not. 

Q. Was not the ultimate purpose of the courtjhouse'leg- 
islature the election of Spencer? 

A. I can't say it was, particularly. It was thought'dem- 
ocrats had obtained seats who were not entitled to them, and 
it was to counteract this movement and to secure the seats of 
members who had been excluded from the capitol legislature. 

Q. Was it considered a party necessity ? 

A. It was so considered in order to give these members 
their seats. 

Q. Was Mr. Spencer the choice of the republican party for 
the office of U. S. senator ? 

A. He was. 

Q. Were there any promises of money made to members 
for their support of Spencer? 

A. Not to my certain knowledge. I was not promised any. 

Q. Do you know of any money being used by Spencer or 
his friends to secure his election ? 

A. I know of none. 

Q. Who was the most ardent supporter, or who occupied 
the most confidential relations with Spencer? 

A. I think Gov. Smith was intimate and a warm supporter. 

Q. What were the relations between J. J. Hinds and 
Spencer ? 

A. They were good friends. 

Q. Did they occupy the same rooms at the hotel ? 

A* They stayed at the same hotel. 

Q. Do you know of Hinds having used any money in 
Spencer's election ? 

A. I do not. 

Q. How many of Spencer's friends in that election, inside 
and outside of the legislature, now hold federal office? 

A. I do not know how many. There are several who sup- 
ported him now holding federal office. General Dustan is 
one, Duskin another, McAfee another, Goodloe, myself, 
Cochran. Wilson was appointed but has since been removed. 
Clarke another. 

Q. Did you call on General Spencer during the session of 
the court house legislature ? 

A. I have been in his room and met him frequently. He 
and I are friendly. 



1. 

Q. Did Gen. Spencer write or telegraph you to come to 
Montgomery ? 

A. He did not. 

Q. Did Hinds? 

A. I do not think he did. 

Q. Who did? 

A. John Price of Florence consulted with me first on the 
subject ; we knew a United States Senator was to be elected, 
and we went to Montgomery together. 

Q. Did you or not know your presence was necessary in 
Montgomery to make a quorum in the court house assembly ? 

A. I did not consider that question. 

Q. Did you not discuss that question when you arrived 
at Montgomery ? 

A. I do not remember that it was discussed. 

Q. How did you make your claim in the court house as- 
sembly for a seat ? 

A. I made no formal or written application. 

Q. Did the idea originate with you to make the claim ? 

A. I had received statements that justified me in the 
opinion. 

Q. Did you make any claim before the committee was 
appointed? 

A. I made no formal or written claim. 

Q. Do you know how the committee came to be ap- 
pointed ? 

A. I do not know at whose instance the committee was 
appointed. 

Q. "What was the first notice you got of the appointment 
of such committee? 

A. I got notice shortly after the committee was appointed. 

Q. Were you not present when the arrangement was 
made? 

A. I was not. 

Q. How long after you got to Montgomery before you 
received notice of the appointment of the committee ? 

A. It was in the early days of the session ; I won't say it 
was the first or second day. 

Q. You have stated that you never made any formal or 
written claim to a seat before the committee was appointed ; 
now state whether you made any demand of any sort, or 
claim, before the committee was appointed? 

A. No, I did not ; it was my intention to have the matter 
investigated. 

Q. Did your action in going to Montgomery and taking a 



li. 

seat in the court house assembly have any reference to the 
election of Spencer ? 

A. It did not, because I was not satisfied as to who would 
be the candidate. 

Q. Wonld you have gone to Montgomery had it not been 
for the pending senatorial election ? 

A. Yes sir. 

Q. Were you in Montgomery while the Martin-Miller con- 
test was pending? 

A. I was. 

Q. Was it the understanding that Miller was to be seated ? 

A. I do not know. 

Q. Don't you know that Senator Glass was secreted to be 
brought in to vote in the Martin-Miller contest ? 

A. Not of my own knowledge ; I know he was paired off 
with Senator Edwards. 

Q. You seem to be so defective in memory, have you a 
good or bad memory ? 

A. I think I have a tolerable good memory, but cannot 
remember events in every particular that transpired two or 
three years ago. 

Q. Who is considered to control the federal patronage in 
this State to a greater extent than any other man ? 

A. General Spencer. 

Q. Is it not by that means he secures the influence of 
ofhce holders? 

A. I can't speak for others. 

Q. Through whose influence were you appointed ? 

A. I would not say it was altogether through Mr. 
Spencer's ; I had many friends in the Republican party. 

Q. What Republicans were excluded from the capital leg- 
islature who applied for admission as members of that body ? 

A. I think that Mr. Black was excluded, and the Barbour 
delegation were not permitted to take their seats ; also, Gen- 
eral Dustan. 

Q. Do you know whether Mr. Black applied for a seat in 
the capital legislature? 

A. I think he did. 

Q. Was he refused admission ? 
. A. I don't know. 

Q. Don't you know Mr. Black took his seat in the court 
house legislature on its organization? 

A. He did ; I, also, know he was afterwards seated in the 
capitol legislature on a contest. 

Q. Why was Mr. Black seated on a contest in the capitoi 
legislature? 



lii. 

A. Because it was established, beyond a doubt, he was 
elected. 

Q. Why were you not seated on a consolidation of the 
two legislatures ? 

A. I made no effort to be seated. 

Q. Don't you know Mr. Black was seated under the com- 
promise of Attorney General Williams, and there was no con- 
test? 

A. I think that was the case. 

Q. Don't you know on the consolidation of the two legis- 
latures the Senate was Republican ? 

A. I think it was. 

Q. If the Senate was Bepublican why did you not contest 
for your seat ? 

A. I had sufficient reasons for not making it. 

Q. Did you believe you could succeed ? 

A. I did not. 

Q. You have stated you held your appointment to a Fed- 
eral office before Spencer's election ; did you hold such office 
during the session of the court house assembly ? 

A. Mo sir, I was removed from the position dating from 
the day of the general election by Mr. William Miller, Col- 
lector of Customs. 

Q. When were you reappointed ? 

A. I was reappointed, perhaps it was in February ; it was 
after I had left Montgomery and gone home. 

Q. Did you have a new commission issued to you ? 

A. I did for the same place I held before. 

Q. Why were you removed? 

A. I don't know the exact cause unless it was he had re- 
ceived information that I had been elected to the Senate. 

Q. Was not that removal at the time understood to be for 
the purpose of qualifying you for holding your seat in the 
senate ? 

A. I had no understanding on the matter ; I knew nothing 
of it until I received notice in Montgomery. 

Q. Was this done before you took your seat? 

A. I received the information while I was in my seat in 
Montgomery ; the removal dated and took effect from the 
day of the election. 

Q. Did your pay stop on the day of the election ? 

A. It did, and I received no pay up to the time of my ap- 
pointment. 

Q. Did Mr. Miller have any right to stop your pay dating 
Jback of the notice of removal ? 

A. I do not know what Mr. Miller's powers were. 



liii. 

Q. It is unusual thus to discharge an officer ; why was it 
done in your case ? 

A. I can't say why Mr. Miller did it. 

Q. Did you understand it, or did you enquire into it? 

A. I did not understand it, I enquired into it however. 

Q. Did you perform any duty from the date of your dis- 
charge up to the time you received notice of it ? 

A. I did not ; I was off on leave. 

Q. Had your leave expired ? 

A. It had not. 

Q. If you were holding office to-day and were discharged, 
your discharge to take effect back of the date of your ap- 
pointment, would you question the power of removal? 

A. I would question the right to stop my pay dating back. 
That would be a different case. 

Q. You say you enquired into the cause of your removal, 
what explanation did you get ? 

A. All that Mr. Miller said was, the understanding was I 
was elected and he would remove me. 

Q. How do you think Mr. Miller found out you were 
elected before you did ? 

A. I do not know from what source he derived his inform- 
ation. 

Q. You say you were reappointed some time in February, 
was this after Spencer's election and the consolidation of the 
two legislatures ? 

A. It was. 

Q. How can you say then, in answer to the question as to 
who procured your appointment, that you held your appoint- 
ment before ? 

A. It did not occur to my mind at that time that I had 
been removed for a few weeks. 

Q. You now say you did receive a federal appointment 
after Spencer's election. 

A. I was reappointed. 

Q. Through whese influence ? 

A. I can't say it was altogether through Spencer's influ- 
ence. He was friendly to me. A good many republicans re- 
commended me. 

Q. Do you know whether he exerted his influence to have 
you appointed ? 

A. I think he did. 

Q. You say you had performed no duty since the day of 
the election up to the time you received notice of your re- 
moval, why were you reappointed to an office to which no 
duties were attached ? 



liv. 

A. At the time I was away from here on a leave of ab- 
sence. The office has duties attached to it. 

Q. Did you ever draw pay for a time when no services 
were rendered ? 

A. No sir. except when absent on leave. 

Q. How long were you absent on the leave you have men- 
tioned ? 

A. I was absent a month or more. 

Q. Are you sure you never signed a pay roll or receipt 
embracing the time between the day of the election and the 
time of the meeting of the court house assembly ? 

A. I am not sure I did not. 

Q. Are you sure you did not receive the money for that 
time ? 

A. I am sure. 

Q. If you signed such a pay roll and received no money, 
what was done with the pay roll or money ? 

A. I don't suppose any money was issued upon such m 
pay roll. 

Q. If any was issued who got it ? 

A. I don't know. I got none. 

Q. Did you draw your per diem during the time you were 
in the court house assembly ? 

A. I did. 

Wm. E. Chisholm> 

JOHN W. MILLER 

being sworn, says : I reside in the city of Mobile and am 
engaged in the banking business, and am a member of the 
firm of T. P. Miiler & Co. I know J. J. Moulton, former 
postmaster of this city. 

Q. Have you any information as to where Mr. Moulton 
kept his bank account, during the time he was postmaster and 
shortly before his removal ? 

A. He did business with us dating about a year before 
his removal up to that time. 

Q. Do you remember the date of his removal ? 

A. I think it was January, 1873. 

Q. Do you know any thing of the nature of the fund de- 
posited with you ? 

A. It was my information they were public funds, from the 
fact that a great many small drafts from postmasters were 
deposited from different sections of the country. I under- 
stood them to be public funds ; though his account on our 
books was in the name of John J. Moulton, 



lv. 

Q. Do you remember his depositing a draft at any time- 
for the sum of $2,250? 

A. Our general ledger shows that there was a deposit 
made on the 7th day of December, 1872, of $2,250. On re- 
ferring to the deposit ticket on which the character of the 
deposit is described, I find that the deposit consisted of a 
draft drawn by the First National Bank of Montgomery on 
the Commercial Bank of Mobile. 

Q. How can we ascertain to whom the draft is made pay- 
able? 

A. By referring to the National Commercial Bank of Mo- 
bile or the First National Bank of Montgomery. 

Q. Did Moulton at aoy time in the Fall of 1872, or early 
part of 1873, draw any money through your bank, for use in 
Montgomery ? 

A. I don't remember the exact time, but think it was the 
latter part of 1872, he called at our bank and obtained a let- 
ter of credit for §2,500, addressed to Farley, Smith & Co., of 
Montgomery. It was all used. (The examination of Mr. Mil- 
ler was suspended until he could examine his books and pa- 
pers, when it was resumed.) 

Q. You mentioned in your evidence on yesterday, a draft 
for $2,250, which you were requested to produce, have you 
been able to find it? 

A. I have. (The witness here presented the draft, as the 
one spoken of before by him, marked Exhibit "A," as follows : 

$2,250. The First National Bank of Montgomery, ) 

Montgomery, Ala., Dec. 4, 1872. f 
"Pay to the order of Geo. E. Spencer twenty-two hundred 
and fifty dollars in currency. 

To National Commercial Bank, Mobile, Ala. 

E. E. Mitchell, Cashier. 
Endorsed by Geo. E. Spencer and John J. Moulton. 

Q. Will you deliver the original, of which the above is a 
copy, to the committee ? 

A. I will deliver it to the committee, subject to the order 
of "National Commercial Bank" of Mobile. It is a voucher 
to them for the amount. The draft is marked Exhibit "A." 

Q. You also testified yesterday about a letter of credit for 
$2,600 to J. J. Moulton, have you refreshed your memory on 
that subject ? 

A. I have found the original copy in our letter-book, and 
herewith furnish a copy, which is hereunto annexed and is 
marked Exhibit "B," which original is dated Dec. 19, 1872. 



Ivi. 

Q. Can you now state correctly how many drafts were 
drawn against this letter, or what amounts or what dates, and 
when drawn ? 

A. There were two drafts drawn, one for $1,500, another 
for $1,000, both dated at Montgomery, Dec. 21st, 1872, drawn 
on us by John J. Moulton, in favor of Farley, Smith & Co. 

Q. Have you the original drafts, and will you deliver them 
to the committee. 

A. I will do so with a receipt for the same, subject to our 
order. 

The drafts are hereto annexed, and are marked Exhibits 
"C."and"D." 

John W. Miller. 

EXHIBIT "B." 

Office of Thos. P. Miller & Co., Bankers, ) 
28 St. Francis St., Mobile, Ala., Dec. 19, 1872. f 
Messrs. Farley, Smith & Co., Montgomery : 

Dear Sirs— Mr. John J. Moulton's draft on us for twenty- 
five hundred dollars will be honored by us if drawn through 
your house on us during the next ten days. Let this letter 
accompany the draft. 

Yours truly, 

Thos. P. Miller & Co. 

EXHIBIT * C." 

$1,500. Montgomery, Ala., Dec. 21, 1872. 

Pay to the order of Farley, Smith & Co. fifteen hundred 
dollars, value received, and charge the same to account of 

Jno. J. Moulton. 
To Messrs. T. P. Miller & Co., Mobile, Ala. 

EXHIBIT "D." 

$1,000. Montgomery, Ala., Dec. 21, 1872. 

Pay to the order of Farley, Smith & Co., one thousand dol- 
lars, value received, and charge the same to the account of 

Jno. J. Moulton. 
To Thos, P. Miller & Co., Mobile, Ala. 

wm. miller 

Being sworn, says : 

I reside in Mobile. Was collector of the port of Mobile 
from February, 1872, to May, 1873. 
By Mr. Little— 



Ivii. 

Q. Did W. B. Chisholm hold any office in the custom 
house during your term of office ? 

A. He was appointed inspector in the early part of the 
year 1872. I think I am certain he was acting during the 
summer of that year. 

Q. How long did he hold that position ? 

A. My impression is that soon after the general election 
in November, 1872, I got the information or impression from 
him that he had a seat in the legislature, and he did not pro- 
pose to draw any pay during the time he was in the legisla- 
ture. 

Q. Did you remove him from the position ? 

A. I did not. I regarded it as a withdrawal for the time 
being. There was no formal removal or resignation. 

Q. About the commencement of the legislature did you 
notify him that he was removed ? 

A. I did not. I notified them all — all who were elected 
to the legislature — that I would not pay them for the time 
they were in the legislature, or held any other office. 

Q. Did Chisholm render any service while he was in office? 

A. From five to ten days would cover the entire service 
rendered by him. 

Q. Did he draw pay for all the time of his appointment ? 

A. He did. 

Q. When was Chisholm removed, or when did he go out 
of office ? 

A. About the 5th of November, 1872. 

Q. Were more persons appointed to office in the custom 
house in 1872 than were needed ? 

A. I think there were. 

Q. For what purposes were these supernumeraries ap- 
pointed ? 

A. For the political influence of the appointees. 

Q. Were you suspended at any time from your position 
as collector? 

A. I was. 

Q. Was there any communication between you and Spen- 
cer as to your reappointment? 

A. I received a telegram from Spencer informing me that 
Warner's name would be withdrawn, and to meet Hinds in 
Montgomery. I met Hinds in Montgomery. I think Spen- 
cer wrote me a letter, sending it by Hinds. At any rate, I 
got a letter from Spencer at about that time, in which I was 
informed that I could confer with Hinds and H. Bay Myers, 
and that they would name the men from whom to select em- 
ployees in the custom house. After conferring with Myers 



lviii. 

personally, and with Hinds by letter, I went on and made re- 
movals and changes, and wherever I thought it at all consis- 
tent with my duty 5 put in the men they named. Among these 
appointees were Chisholm and Dereen. Hinds insisted that 
Chisholm should be made chief inspector. I appointed him 
an inspector, but not chief inspector. H. Ray Myers told me 
soon after I got the telegram named from Spencer, that he 
had had a meeting with the negroes and had determined upon 
a list of names to be appointed. 

Q. Who was the chief dispenser of federal patronage in 
Alabama ? 

A. I think Spencer was. 

Q. What was the relation between Spencer, Hinds and H. 
Ray Myers in political affairs ? 

A. I regarded them as fast friends, each one endeavoring 
to seek the promotion of interest of the others, both political 
and otherwise. 

Q. What was the understanding at the time these super- 
numerary appointments you have spoken of were made, as to 
how long their term of office should last? 4 , f y 

A. The supernumeraries were appointed to continue in 
office until after the election in November, 1872. The others 
until there was cause for removal. 

Q. What was the power of the collector of the ports, in 
appointing and removing inspectors ? 

A. He had the right, under the regulations, to remove in- 
spectors and to appoint temporary inspectors whenever he 
deemed it necessary. 

Q. What is the customary method of discharging inspec- 
tors? 

A. To give them notice in writing, or verbally, that their 
services are not wanted. . 

Q. Was Chisholm ever discharged in this way ? 

A. He was not. He was informed some time early in 
November to make out his voucher for the number of days 
he considered himself in office for that month. 

Wm. Miller. 

moses s. foote 
Being sworn, said : 

Q. Where did you reside in the year 1872, and what was 
your business ? 

A. I resided in Mobile, and was engaged in the banking 
business. 



lix. 

Q. Did you have any business transactions in your bank, 
in the Fall of 1872 with Lou H. Mayer or John J. Moulton ? 

A. I did, with both of them. 

Q. What was the nature of the business? 

A. Taking money on deposit and discounting paper. 

Q. Who personally made the deposit ? 

A. John J. Moulton, who was then post master of Mobile. 

Q. In whose name was the account entered ? 

A. In the name of W. H. Lewis, agent. He was engaged 
in the post office department at the time. 

Q. Do you know what funds were so deposited ? 

A. I do not know, unless it was post office money ? 

Q. What reasons have you for thinking it was post office 
money ? 

A. I ascertained the fact from Moulton himself at the 
time. 

Q. What was the amount of this deposit ? 

A. Twelve hundred and forty dollars, Oct. 31, 1872. 

Q. Why was the deposit made? 

A. Asa collateral for a discount. 

Q. What was the amount of the paper, discount and time ? 

A. Two thousand dollars and, I think sixty days. 

Q. Who obtained the discount? 

A. L. H.. Mayer, assessor of internal revenue, at the time, 
and John J. Moulton, post master. 

Q. The deposit being less than the accommodation, what 
other security did you have, if any. 

A. The endorsement of Hon. C. F. Moulton and Caleb 
Price, Esq. 

Q. Was the paper met at maturity ? 

A. No, it was extended. 

Q. Do you know the necessity for extension ; if so, 
state it ? 

A. I was informed by both, Mr. L. H. Mayer and Mr. 
Moulton, that Spencer had gone back on them, he having told 
them that $25,000 was set apart for political purposes to carry 
the State, by the Republican National Executive Committee, 
and that they had been authorized in anticipation of this 
amount to make the loan or any money arrangements neces- 
sary, and that Spencer had not provided the means promised, 
and they therefore asked for further time. Mayer stated, at 
the same time complaining of Spencer, that he (Spencer) knew 
that Moulton had used post office money, and that he (Mayer) 
had pledged his wife's jewels and all the money he could get, 
as well as revenue money, to pay these accommodations. 
These matters were stated as a basis for further extension. 



Ix. 

Q. Was there any other money transactions with you 
about that time by these parties, or either of them ; if so, what 
were they ? 

A. Yes. I accommodated Mr. Mayer, upon his applica- 
tion by cashing the pay rolls of his assessments, the money 
not having arrived from Washington in time, the pay rolls 
having been properly endorsed and certified by the assessor 
and collector. 

Q. Was there any further transactions with Mr. Mayer of 
this nature ? 

A. There was. He applied to me to cash the pay rolls of 
three assistant assessors at the same time. The application 
was made on the first of the month for pay during that month, 
which I declined to do, unless properly sworn to before the 
assessor, L. H. Mayer, and certified as correct by John J. 
Foster, as collector of internal revenue, all of which was done, 
and therefore the accommodotion was granted. A similar re- 
quest was made the following month upon the same character 
of paper, but was declined. 

Q. What were your reasons for declining the second re- 
quest ? 

A. Two reasons. 1st. He said it was to be used in send- 
ing men into the country for political purposes; that they in- 
tended to carry the State for Grant and Spencer. 2nd. I was 
satisfied that the pay rolls certified and sworn to thirty days 
before they were due was unlawful. I called Mayer's atten- 
tion to that fact, and asked him what he meant by such con- 
duct. He replied ; "I know what I am doing, and have the 
approval of the department and will be sustained." 

Q. Have you any information tending to show that George 
E. Spencer was connected with any of these transactions? 

A. Only the fact that on one occasion Moulton drew from 
his pocket a letter in the presence of Mayer, I think, and stated 
that it was a letter from Spencer, authorizing them to make 
money transactions and pledging to them the $25,000. This 
statement was made pending the negotiation for the loan of 
"the $2,000. 

Q. Did you call on the collector for an explanation of why 
he certified to these pay rolls in advance? If so, what did 
he say? 

A. I did, and asked him why he certified to these accounts 
so far in advance of their being due, and what would he do 
in case any of these parties should die in the meantime. He 
replied, he and Mayer would have to pay them between them ; 
that they were riding him to death in this Spencer matter, 
and that he was tired of it and did not intend to repeat it. 



ki. 

Q. During these transactions did you learn any fact tend- 
ing to show that Mayer was to receive any reward for his 
services from Spencer ? 

A. Yes. Mr. Mayer informed me that if Grant carried 
the State, Spencer would be elected to the United States Sen- 
ate, and he would then, through Spencer, be appointed col- 
lector of internal revenue at Mobile over Dr. Foster, when 
the offices of collector and assessor were consolidated. Moul- 
ton also told me that Mayer would get the appointment. 

Q. Did Mr. Mayer ever ask any other accommodation 
from you ? 

A. He did. He came to me and wanted one or more 
thousand dollars. He wanted to deposit as collateral U. S. 
postage stamps. I declined to make the loan. 

Mopes S. Foote. 

The committee then adjourned to meet in Montgomery to- 
morrow at 11 a. m. 

Montgomery, Ala., May 6, 1875. 

The committee met pursuant to adjournment at thecapitol. 
Present : Messrs. Little, Parks, Price and Brewer. 

W. H. HUNTEE 

Being sworn, says : 

I reside in the city of Montgomery. I resided in Lowndes 
county in 1872. I am a Republican in politics. I was a 
member of the lower house of the general assembly of this 
State in 1872 from Lowndes county. 

Q. At the organization of the general assembly, were you 
a member of the court house or capitol legislature? 

A. I was a member of the court house legislature, so 
called. 

Q. Was it considered by the leading Republicans of the 
general assembly that there was a quorum in the Senate of 
the court house assembly ? 

A. Not without the seating of certain members that had 
no certificates. Among the number were Chisholm, Baker 
and Miller. 

Q. What was the object and purpose of the organization 
of the court house body ? 

A. The intention and object as stated to us in caucus and 
secret sessions was to effect a permanent organization of the 
two bodies of the general assembly of Alabama with Repub- 
lican majorities in both branches, the principal object being 



Ixii. 

to secure the election of a United States Senator, for which 
office Spencer was a prominent candidate, but against whom 
there was considerable opposition. This opposition gave way 
when the agreement gained credence that if Spencer was not 
elected no one would be. 

Q. Do you know of any other means used to overcome 
this opposition ? 

^ A. The argument was used by the party leaders that it 
was a party necessity to keep the majority in the court house 
body and to elect Spencer. 

Q. "Was J. J. Hinds in Montgomery pending the election 
for United States Senator by the court house assembly ? 

A. He was. 

Q. What were the relations between he and Spencer? 

A. They appeared to be very intimate and confidential. 
Hinds was constantly among the members urging them to 
vote for Spencer, and to maintain the court house organiza- 
tion. He was with Spencer constantly ; they come to Mont- 
gomery together, and Spencer occupied a suit of rooms in the 
Madison House, and I suppose Hinds occupied the same 
rooms. If any one had to be looked after, or was regarded 
as a little weak on the Spencer election, it seemed to be 
Hinds' special business to look after him ; he was regarded 
as Spencer's cashier and agent ; I was informed by colored 
members that the night before Spencer's election an oyster 
supper was given the colored members of the court house 
assembly by Hinds in Spencer's interest. 

Q. Do you know whether any members of the court house 
assembly were disaffected towards that organization when it 
first assembled, and at first declined to take seats ? 

A. It was understood there were several disaffected mem- 
bers to that movement ; of which number was Senator Good- 
loe, who, although present, did not join or participate with 
them until just previous to the election of United States 
Senator. 

Q. Was there any reason given why Goodloe finally took 
his seat in that body ? 

A. None, except it was understood that his receiving the 
collectorship of the port of Mobile was to be his compensa- 
tion. 

Q, If after Spencer's election you had any conversation 
with Goodloe with reference to his appointment to the col- 
lectorship of the port ot Mobile, state what it was. 

A. I had a conversation with Mr. Goodloe, in which I ex- 
pressed surprise at the appointment of Reynolds to the col- 
lectorship of the port of Mobile instead of him (Goodloe) ; I 



lxiii. 

said to bim, "I thought it was the understanding you was to 
get that office ;" his reply was : "It will all come out right 
jet!" 

Q. Was he subsequently appointed to this office? 

A. He \*as. 

Q. Do you know from your own knowledge, or from a 
general understanding with tbe leading Republicans that 
other members were to receive Federal appointments? 

A. The Federal patronage of Alabama was to be divided 
among the members of the assembly who supported Spencer; 
I remember the name of Geo. M. Duskin, who was to be ap- 
pointed United States District Attorney ; this was the general 
understanding. A short time after the election of Spencer, 
and about the time of the reorganization under the terms of 
the attorney general, I proposed to run as a candidate for 
speaker of the house of representatives ; Senator Spencer 
said to me that he could procure for me the appointment of 
consul to Alexandria, Egypt. After the reorganization, and 
a day or two before the day upon which I attempted to bring 
on an election for United States Senator in the consolidated 
or reorganized legislature, D. C. Whiting showed me a tele- 
gram from Spencer, who was then in Washington, in these 
words : "Shall I have Hunter appointed now, or wait until the 
legislature adjourns ; I think the latter plan preferable." 
(Signed) ''Geo. E. Spencer." The appointment referred to 
was the consulate to Alexandria, which had been filled by a 
Utica, New York, man, two weeks previous to the date of the 
dispatch, and the fact published in the Associated press dis- 
patches, of which Spencer was fully aware. 

Q. Can you give any explanation of this conduct of 
Spencer? 

A. I am satisfied he was aware of the fact that I intended 
to make an effort to elect a United States Senator by the con- 
solidated legislatures, and that this was an effort to forestall 
my action. 

Q. Do you know of any money having been used to se- 
cure the vote of any member of the general assembly for 
Spencer ? 

A. I know that January Maull received $25 ; he stated to 
me that Carsons received $75, and Jones $200, which was 
stated to be a fund for reimbursing for money expended in 
the campaign. I, although a member of the Lowndes dele- 
gation and a supporter of Spencer, received nothing, nor was 
I tendered any money, although I had expended ten times the 
amount of the others. 



hiv. 

Q. Did Hinds use any money in securing Spencer's elec- 
tion? 

A. He seemed to have plenty of money and had a way of 
making it known ; I saw him with it frequently ; he seemed 
to be liberal with it, and left the impression upon me that he 
was there ready and prepared for any emergency in Spencer's 
interest. 

Q, What seemed to be Hinds' special business there at 
the time ? 

A. He seemed to be there specially in the interest of 
Spencer, who was a candidate for United States Senator, in 
electioneering for him among the members and upon the 
streets. 

Q. Was J. J. Moulton there at the time? 

A. I remember his being there the evening of the tem- 
porary organization under the plan of the attorney general.. 

Q. Among the candidates before the court house assem- 
bly for United States Senator, who was your choice? 

A. General Spencer. 

W. H. Hunter. 

EOBEET BAEBEE 

Being sworn says : 

I reside near the city of Montgomery ; in 1872 I was clerk 
of the lower house of the court house assembly, and, also, of 
the consolidated legislature. 

By Mr. Little— 

Q. What was the object of the court house assembly ? 

A. To get a Kepublican organization ; we did not think we 
could get it at the capitol, but the main object was to secure 
the election of Spencer. 

Q. Was the object, during the campaign, previous to the 
general election, directed to the election of members of the 
legislature, with the view of electing a United States Senator; 
if so, who, and what steps were taken ? 

A. Yes, Geo. E. Spencer. Gen. Spencer said he had re- 
liable information that Parsons would be a candidate against 
him for the place, and must be defeated. 

Q. How did he propose to accomplish this ? 

A. He sent me to Talladega county for the purpose of 
getting out an independent candidate. 

Q. Who was to be the independent candidate, and what 
inducements were to be offered him ? 

A. A man named Wood, who resided near Syllacauga, 
and was a Eepublican of considerable influence ; I was in- 
structed by Gen. Spencer to inform Mr. Wood that he would 
see that all the expenses of the canvass would be met. When 



lxv. 

I reached the place, I found Parsons would not be a candi- 
date, and did not execute the plan. 

Q. Was there any other plan for securing Spencer's elec- 
tion or defeating other parties? 

A. Peter G. Clarke and H. Kay Mayer were sent to Dallas 
by Spencer to defeat Alexander White, who was supposed to 
be in Parsons' interest. 

Q. What plan was adopted for defeating White ? 

A. They were to arrange with Beach for him to be a secret 
candidate against White, whose name was to be left off the 
tickets which were to be printed at Washington ; the tickets 
were printed with about one-half with White's name upon 
them and the other half left blank. When the tickets ar- 
rived White discovered the omission and had his name 
printed in the blank. 

Q. If arrangements were made for any other county state 
what they were and the county? 

A. A crowd of us went over to Lowndes to beat Stanwood 
and a colored man, known opponents of Spencer, and put in 
Hunter and two colored men favorable to Spencer, in which 
plan we succeeded. 

Q. In carrying out these plans was any money used ? 

A. In the Lowndes county trip Spencer gave Whiting 
$3(H) to defray expenses. 

Q. Have you any written communication relating to the 
plans you have mentioned touching the use of troops in Ala- 
bama? 

A. I have some letters which I do not care to produce, as 
they are of a private character. 

Q. Do you say you have them in your possession? 

A. I do ; but wishing to violate nothing like confidence, 
will not produce them unless required to do so by the com- 
mittee. 

(The witness was permitted to consult with his attorney.) 

Q. As it is improper to ask of the contents of the letters 
when you have them in your possession, we are put to the 
necessity of requiring you to produce them ; will you do so ? 

A. I produce the letters, here they are (handing them to 
the chairman) ; I ask that the committee have copies made, 
and allow me to retain the originals. 

(A copy of these letters is hereto appended, marked ex- 
hibits E. and R, and are a part of this testimony). 

Q. Do you know these letters to be genuine ? 

A. I know Spencer's handwriting ; they were written and 
signed by him, and bear the impress of his seal or motto used 
by him. 
5 



Ixvi. 

'Q. 1 notice In the letter of October 22, 1872, the expres- 
sion, "I wish Eandolph, Deputy United States Marshal, 
would use the company at Opelika in making arrests in Tal- 
lapoosa, Randolph and Cleburne, as suggests ;" please 

explain the meaning of this expression ? 

A. I received a letter from Randolph county before the 
date of these letters, suggesting that if troops be sent into 
the counties named that enough voters would be run out of 
them, through fear oi arrest, to secure the election of Repub- 
lican representatives from those counties, and the letter of 
October 22 was in reply to a letter written to Spencer, con- 
Yeying to him this information. 

Q. Was your connection with the Republican party and 
Spencer of a character to enable you to understand their and 
his plans? 

A. I was familiar with their and his plans all the way 
through ; I was assistant secretary of the Republican State 
Executive Committee. 

Q. What were the relations between Hinds and Spencer ? 

A. Hinds was the confidential man and represented Spen- 
cer fully in every particular. He had the control of every 
movement made. 

Q. Do you know of any money being used by Hinds or 
Spencer or by any one for Spencer to secure his election ; if 
so state it and who were the special friends of Spencer work- 
ing in his interest pending the election before the legislature, 
and what was done? 

A. The special friends of Spencer were C, C. Sheets, mem- 
ber of Congress; Col. W. H. Betts, D. C. Whiting, J. J. Hinds, 
already mentioned, Hon. Charles Pelham, A. R. Baker, pre- 
sent U. S. Marshal for Northern District of Alabama, and 
myself. These are the men who had the special management 
of Spencer's election. I was informed in our conferences 
that all the money necessary to secure Spencer's election was 
provided and in the hands of Hinds. 

Q. Were any means used upon the Lowndes county dele- 
gation of the court house assembly to induce them to remain 
in said assembly and to support Spencer ; if so, state fully 
about it. 

A. It was generally understood by the managers of Spen- 
cer's election, the night before his election, that the Lowndes 
county delegation, except Hunter, were disaffected and would 
not be present to vote for Spencer, and would thereby defeat 
his election, there not being a sufficient number left on joint 
ballot to elect a senator. We were informed that $2,000 had 
&>een raised to disaffect these members, and that the money 



lxvii. 

was subject to the order of Senator Jones, which was after- 
wards ascertained not to be the case, but not knowing better 
at the time, I was instructed to inform Senator Jones that we 
had $2,500 subject to hi9 order, conditioned upon his holding 
the Lowndes county delegation in the court house assembly. 
We ascertained Jones was attending a colored ball and sent 
J. N. Beach, a government detective, to interview Jones and 
report. Sandy Bynum, John C. Hendrix and myself were 
selected to watch the Lowndes county delegation in the lower 
house of the assembly, except Hunter, all night, and not lose 
sight of them. Betts was to take special charge of Senator 
Jones, and was instructed, if necessary, to offer him the $2,500. 
I was to watch the representatives all night, which I did. 
Just before day Daniel Norwood, assistant sergeant-at-arms, 
came out of the house where they were staying and I gave 
him five dollars to go in and wake up Carson and Maull and 
tell them I wanted to see them. They came out and I invited 
them to the Madison House, where breakfast had been or- 
dered by Senator Spencer for their especial benefit. I then 
went to Senator Spencer's room and informed him that I had 
them. He told me to bring them up to his room, which I did. 
I told. Carson and Maull, two of the representatives from 
Lowndes, that Spencer had made up his mind to give each of 
them an appointment. Spencer was present and promised 
each of them a route agency, one on the Western Eailroad. 
I have forgotten the other. The promise was made in my 
presence. During the night, while on watch, I left Bynum 
on watch and went to Spencer's room and suggested to him 
to send to Lowndes for Bryant, who came the next morning, 
and I understood received s300 from Hinds. This seemed 
to fix the Lowndes county delegation all right. The legisla- 
ture convened that morning; the Lowndes members were pre- 
sent and voted for Spencer. 

Q. Were there any promises made or inducements offered 
to other members of the court house assembly ? 

A. Many of the members were promised offices. I was 
authorized by Spencer to promise as many offices to members 
as I thought necessary to secure their support. 

Q. Was J. C. Goodloe promised any position ? 

A. Not in my presence ; but it was understood that he 
was to receive a federal appointment, and that, at the proper 
time, he would join the court house assembly ; but that he 
was to remain in such a position as to have access to and the 
confidence of the capitol assembly until his vote was needed 
at the court house to elect Spencer. He attended the cau- 
cusses of the capitol assembly and ascertained all he could of 



lxviii. 

its movements by going to the rooms of members and con- 
versations, reporting all that he learned and heard to Spen- 
cer. 

Q. Were any influences used upon members of the capitol 
legislature in furtherance of the plan to secure Spencer's 
election ? 

A. Yes. We were trying to defeat a quorum of the capi- 
tol legislature constantly. I was given to understand we had 
succeeded in defeating a quorum by the disaffection of a 
man named Mancill, whom Hinds had informed me he had 
44 fixed," to use his own expression, by increasing the number 
of trips per week on some postal route that Mancill had as 
contractor or sub-contractor, thereby increasing the pay to 
$600. I think the contract was for $300 and he increased it 
to $600. I was given to understand by the managers, (I mean 
by "managers," the persons heretofore spoken of as having 
charge of Spencer's election,) that we had nothing to fear 
from representative Kellv. 

Q. What about Stribbling ? 

A. Stribbling was turned over to those who played cards. 
I was given to understand that he was to be drugged, and 
afterwards learned he was lying somewhere insensible. This 
was the night before the day fixed by law for the election of 
U. S. Senator, when the capitol assembly was to proceed with 
such election. I learned that on that day he was still lying 
insensible. 

Q. Were there any members of the court house assembly 
seated in that body for the purposes stated who were not 
elected ? If so, who were they ? 

A. It was the general impression that neither Baker or 
Chisholm were entitled to seats. 

Q. At the time of the fusion of the two legislatures under 
the attorney general's plan, did either Baker or Chisholm; 
apply for a seat in the consolidated body ? 

A. No sir, neither of them. They were excluded by the 
terms of the compromise. 

Q. State whether any compensation, or promise thereof, 
was made to Baker or Chisholm to induce him to enter and 
remain in the court house assembly as a representative or 
senator from a certain county ? 

A. At the time Baker took his seat in the court house 
assembly, he was a commissioner to take testimony in claims 
against the United States, and complained that he would lose 
money by taking his seat, as it was known he was not elected 
and could not get his pay. I promised him a clerkship, be- 
ing at the time myself clerk of the house. 



lxix. 

Q. Did he afterwards take any position in the consolidated 
legislature ? 

A. Ke did. He was appointed clerk of the committee on 
internal improvements by Gen. Dustan, the chairman. 

Q. Was there any promise made to him of any federal 
office? 

A. He told me he had been promised a federal appoint- 
ment. I think it was special agent of the postoffice depart- 
ment. 

Q. Did he afterwards receive a federal appointment ? 

A. He was afterwards appointed U. S. Marshal for the 
northern district of Alabama. 

Q. What office was Chisholm to get ? 

A.- I made the same promise to Chisholm as I did to Ba- 
ker in regard to a clerkship. After the consolidation of the 
two bodies he was appointed to a position in the custom house 
at Mobile. 

Q. Do you know whether Baker or Chisholm were sent 
for or came of their own accord to the meeting of the legisla- 
ture? 

A. I think they were sent for. 

Q. Was it decided upon by the friends of Spencer that 
Miller was to be seated upon the consolidation of the two 
bodies, in his contest with Martin? 

A. It was. 

Q. When, where and by whom was this arrangement 
made? 

A. When — during the pendency of the Martin-Miller con- 
test. Where and when — in a caucus of the managers hereto- 
fore mentioned. 

Q. How was this accomplished ? 

A. We were to sustain Lt. Gov. McKinstry in his rulings, 
whatever decisions he might make. 

Q. State fully how McKinstry's rulings were to be sus- 
tained, by what persons and by what means. 

A. To carry out the plan agreed upon and to get McKins- 
try to rule so as to seat Miller before an absent senator re- 
turned, it was necessary, we thought, for McKinstry to rule 
so as to cut off debate and secure a final vote. It was thought 
if McKinstry so ruled, that the democratic members would 
bolt or withdraw from the Senate, or have a fight. To pro- 
vide for the latter contingency, picked men were procured 
and were by agreement in the Senate chamber in the lobby. 

Q. Who were these men? 

A. W. H. Betts, Charles Pelham, Sam Oliver, M. G. Can- 
dee, Milo Barber, J.J. Hinds, a "rough" from Georgia whose 



lxx. 

name I did not know, and some five or six others whose names 
I cannot remember, some from Mobile. 

Q. Was McKinstry apprised of this plan, and did he co- 
operate ? 

A. I don't know that McKinstry w T as apprised of the plan 
. of their being brought there ; but he knew the men, and we 
believed he would rule so as to seat Miller at all hazards and 
would be strengthened by their presence, the object of the 
plan being to show him he had friends who would back 
him. 

Q. Why was it believed McKinstry would so rule? 

A. We thought some dilatory action might be taken by 
democratic members which would prevent final action in the 
matter until the return of the democratic senator, Edwards, 
and it was necessary to have final action on that day and seat 
Miller, as we feared Edwards might return before the matter 
was settled. 

Q. State what was done to procure Senator Glass to re- 
main in Montgomery in the absence of Senator Edwards and 
vote on the question of seating Miller over Martin. Give a 
full statement of all that transpired up to the time Glass took 
his seat and voted. 

A. It was generally understood among the managers that 
Senator Glass was to pair off with Senator Edwards in the 
Miller-Martin contest ; that Glass was to go over to the depot 
with Edwards and return back to the city seemingly or ap- 
parently unknown to Edwards, the idea being to make out- 
siders believe they both left on the same day. They did both 
go to the depot on the same day at the same time. Glass re- 
turned without the knowledge of Edwards and was secreted 
in a room at the Madison House. To give Glass an excuse 
for violating his pledge with Senator Edwards, I served a 
subpoena on him, which was given me by Charles Pelham to 
execute on him as a witness in some case in which Pelham 
was an attorney. I went to the Madison House to execute 
this writ and found A. K. Baker doorkeeper for Glass. I 
asked him to execute the subpoena by handing it to Glass, 
which he did. Glass was kept out of sight until the vote was 
being taken in said Miller-Martin contest. He was informed 
by signal from the front of the capitol the very moment his 
presence was required. He appeared in the Senate in time, 
and did vote for seating Miller. I understood he was to be 
paid $300 or $500 for breaking faith with Edwards. 

Q. Who is A. E. Baker? 

A. He was the Senator from Morgan county in the court- 



lxxi. 

house legislature, and is now United States marshal' for the 
Northern District of Akbama. 

Q. In what manner was the signal given to Glass to appear 
in the Senate and from what place ? 

A. From the second story portico of the capitol, either bj 
the waving of a coat or handkerchief. 

Q. What were the next steps taken ? 

A. Upon a vote being taken, McKinstry ruled that Miller 
was seated. Before the result was announced Senator Cobb 
changed his vote from the negative to the affirmative for th© 
purpose of moving for a reconsideration, which motion he 
made. President McKinstry ruled the motion was out of 
order and declined to put it to the Senate. The Senate ad- 
journed with the understanding that Senator Cobb should 
have the floor next morning. 

Q. What was done next morning ? 

A. The motion to reconsider was renewed by Mr. Cobb. 
McKinstry adhered to his former decision. Thereupon Mr. 
Cobb said he would not resort to violence. 

Q. What was then done? 

A. Senator Parks renewed the motion to reconsider, which 
McKinstry ruled out of order. Senator Parks appealed from 
his decision and asked McKinstry to put the appeal to the 
Senate, which he refused to do. 

Q. W T hat was then done? 

A. Senator Parks undertook to put the vote himself, and 
called on the secretary to call the roll. McKinstry said to the 
secretary, "You dare not do it, sir," at the same time empty- 
ing the water out of his pitcher. He then laid his cane on 
the stand and then opened his drawer. Senator Parks then 
put the question, but no vote was taken. Senators Hamilton 
and Cooper crossed over to Senator Parks and urged him to 
desist. Senator Parks finally desisted and Miller came for- 
ward and was sworn in. 

Q. Are these the rulings to which you referred in which 
McKinstry was to be sustained? 

A. They are. 

Q. Was there any preconcerted plan agreed upon by which 
the Democratic members from Marengo county were to be 
arrested immediately after their election or before the assem- 
bling of the legislature? 

A. The understanding was that they were to be arrested 
while en route to Montgomery and carii3d to Mobile by way 
of Meridian or a round about way. They were not to be 
brought through Montgomery. 

Q. By whom was this understood ? 



lxxii. 

A. J By the managers? 
" Q. Do you know whether Gillette was written to, or tele- 
graphed to come up ? 

A. My recollection is that he was either written to or tel- 
egraphed ? 

Q. Did he come ? 

A . My recollection is that he did. 

Q. What was the purpose of these arrests ? 

A. To prevent a quorum of Democratic members in the 
capitol legislature. 

Q. Was John J. Moulton in Montgomery pending Spen- 
cer's election ? 

A. I think he was here part of the time. 

Q. Do you know of any members having obtained money 
from Hinds, while they belonged to the court house as- 
sembly ? 

A. Yes. Most of the colored members would get loans 
from Hinds. 1 have seen them frequently borrowing money 
from him. 

Q. Did he take any note from them, or was there any 
promise of repayment on the part of the borrowers? 

A, Not that I know of. The money was obtained under 
the guise of a loan. 

Q State whether this money was paid out of the fund 
provided by Spencer, or out of Hinds' private funds ? 

A. It was my inference, from all the facts within my 
knowledge that the money thus furnished came out of the 
fund that had been provided as I heretofore stated. 

Q. Do you know any facts tending to explain the use of 
troops in the district of which Lou H. Mayer was at the time 
revenue assessor? 

A. Yes. I read a communication from Mayer, setting 
forth a plan he had submitted to Spencer for the use of troops 
in that district. The ostensible object was the use of the 
troops to protect revenue officers in the performance of their 
duties in the collection of the United States revenue, and the 
suppression of illicit distilleries ; but the real object was to 
organize the party into organizations called National Guards. 
I afterwards received a letter from Squires, who was con- 
nected with Perrin, reporting progress and stating how many 
organizations he had perfected. He was complaining that 
the commanding officer of the troops had got tired of that 
kind of service, and did not co-operate with him. 

Q. Was Hinds a skillful manager of such matters as came 
before the managers mentioned by you ? 



lxxiii. 

A. Yes, sir. I considered him one of the shrewdest poli- 
ticians I had seen — untiring, energetic and unscrupulous. 

Q. What are your feelings toward Mr. Spencer ? 

A. I have no personal ill feeliug against General Spencer, 
but think his course in politics has been the death blow to 
the republican party in Alabama. His test of a man's alle- 
giance to the republican party was allegiance to himself. 

Kobekt Barber. 

EXHIBIT " E." 

[Private.] (Coat of Arms.) 

Decatur, Ala., Oct. 16, 1872. 
"Dear Barber : 

I have just returned home from West Alabama, and find 
that W 7 hiting has gone to New York and has left word for me 
to go to Montgomery. I can not for two or three days leave 
here. I wish you would write me the news ; what Whiting 
has gone to New York for, and the prospect, &c, <tc. 

Write me a long letter by return mail, and tell me all that 
has occurred. W r as Stanwood beaten in Lowndes ? 

I have heard nothing in a week. 

Have you heard of any troops having been ordered to the 
State? Can't you manage to get White off the legislative 
track in Dallas ? Parsons has a deep laid scheme to elect 
himself, and has now gone to New York to try and raise 
money to be used in the legislature. I have news direct from 
him. See Beach and Coon, and urge them to see that White 
is taken down. Be sure and write me everything that is go- 
ing on. In haste, 

Sincerely yours, 

(Signed) Geo. E. Spencer. 

EXHIBIT - F." 

(Coat of Arms.) 

Decatur, Ala., Oct. 22, IS 72. 
My Dear Barber : 

I have just returned from Louisville, where I have been to 
see Gen. Terry about troops for Alabama. 

I have had a company of cavalry sent to Livingston, a de- 
tachment to Pickens county, a company of infantry toEutaw, 
and a company to Demopolis, and a company to Seal's Sta- 
tion, Bussell county. Also, a aquadron of cavalry to report 
to Marshal Thomas, at Huntsville. 



lxxiv. 

I wish Bandolph, deputy IT. S. marshal, would use the 
company at Opelika in making arrests in Tallapoosa, Ban- 

dolph and Cleburne, as suggests. I will be in 

Montgomery Thursday morning, to attend the meeting of the 
State committee. I would go sooner but can not, as it is im- 
portant I should stay here to-morrow. I wish you would- 
go to Talladega and block that game. I must not, however,- 
be known in the matter. 

The troops mentioned above will all be in their respective 
places in. two days from now — some have already arrived. 
In haste, truly yours, 

(Signed) Geo. E. Spencer. 

HENRY COCHRAN 

Being sworn, deposes and says : 

I was a member of the legislature of 1872 from Dallas 
county. Messrs. Alexander White, Thomas Walker, Joseph 
H. Goldsby and Hansom L. Johnson were my colleagues rep- 
resenting that county. 

By General Morgan — 

Q. What federal offices have any of these persons held to 
which they were appointed since they were elected members 
of that legislature? 

A. I was myself appointed postmaster of the city of 
Selma. I think Goldsby was appointed after the expiration 
of his term of office in the legislature. 

Q. What is your office worth per annum ? 

A. About $2,500 per annum. 

Q. When did you receive your appointment to that officej? 

A. I think I received my appointment as postmaster some 
time in February or March, but did not take charge of the 
office for some two months afterwards. I was confirmed at a* 
regular term of the senate. 

Q. Did you visit Washington city about the time of your 
appointment ? 

A. I did not. 

Q. Were you in the legislature at the time of your ap- 
pointment ? 

A. I was. 

Q. How long did you continue to hold your seat before 
you wrote a paper to the governor of Alabama in reference 
to your resignation ? 

A. I can't recollect how long. 

Q. Did you write the paper before June, 1873 ? 

A. I did. 



lxxv. 

Q. Did you write any paper ? 

A. I did, but can't remember its contents. 

Q. Can you remember the substance or purport of the 
contents of that paper? 

A. It had reference to a resignation, but I can not remem- 
ber its purport now. 

Q. Was it a resignation ? 

A. It had conditions in it. I can't say whether it was or 
not. 

Q. What were the conditions ? 

A. I can't remember. 

Q. Was it intended to be a resignation ? 

A. Not by me, it was not. 

Q. Did you send it to the office of the governor of the 
State ? 

A. I left it with the private secretary of the governor. 

Q. If it was not a resignation, why did you leave it with 
the governor's secretary ? 

A. I understood I could not be a member of the legisla- 
ture and atso postmaster. I afterwards found out it did not 
apply to me, as I was elected after I was appointed, and I 
withdrew the paper. 

Q. What was the necessity of withdrawing the paper if 
it was not intended as a resignation ? 

A. Now I can't give any explanation, for I don't remember. 

Q. What did the conditions in the paper refer to? 

A. I can't remember. 

Q. How long after the paper was left in the office of the 
governor before you recalled it ? 

A. I don't give any definite time. It might have been 
three months or it might have been six months. 

Q. Do you think most likely, three or six months ? 

A. I can't say. I don't remember. 

Q. Did you obtain the paper from the governor or from 
his private secretary? 

A. I can't remember. 

Q. Had the legislature of 1872-3 adjourned before you 
filed that paper ? 

A. I think it was four or five days before the adjournment 
of that body. It may have been longer. 

Q. Did you then abandon your seat and go home? 

A. No, I did not. 

Q. What did you do ? 

A. I weut down and took charge of my office and went 
back again. 



lxxvi. 

Q. Did you retain your seat until the adjournment of the 
legislature of 1872-3 ? 

A. I did. I remember now that I filed the paper hereto- 
fore named on or about the last day of the session of 1872-3, 
as near as I can remember. 

Q. ~~Af ter your return from the legislature to Dallas county, 
did you not tell various people you had resigned? 

A. Yes, I believe I did. 

Q. Did you not tell me so ? 

A. I don't think I did. 

Q. Did you not tell Gen. Coon so ? 

A. I think I did. 1 think I showed him a copy of the 
paper I filed. 

Q. How long was it after your return from the legislature 
before you told any one you had withdrawn your resignation ? 

A. I don't recollect. 

Q. About how long? 

A. I can't give any definite time. I know I withdrew it 
some time before I told any one of it, notwithstanding I was 
bothered considerably about it by General Coon, who wanted 
to be elected in my place. 

Q. How long had you withdrawn it before you told Gen. 
Coon of it? 

A. I don't remember. 

Q. In the interval between the time you filed your resigna- 
tion and the time you withdrew it, did you see General Spen- 
cer? 

A. I don't recollect. 

Q. Did you have any correspondence during the time 
mentioned with him ? 

A. I think I did. I know I did. 

Q. How many letters do you say you wrote him within 
the time named ? 

A. I don't know. 

Q. Did you write him more than once during that time ? 

A. I can't say. I never wrote much. The only thing I 
remember of now is a dispatch enquiring if Coon was beaten 
in Dallas county. 

Q. When was it received ? 

A. The evening after the election occurred. 

Q. When was the election? 

A. I do not know. 

Q. Was it not in November, on the day fixed by law, on 
Tuesday after the first Monday in November ? 

A. I do not remember. 



lxxvii. 

Q. Had you not been in correspondence with Spencer 
concerning General Coon's election ? 

A. I can't remember of any correspondence with him on 
the subject. 

Q. Who did you write to in Washington on the subject of 
Coon's election? 

A. I can't remember any one. I might have written. 

Q. If you did not write to General Spencer, how came him 
to telegraph you asking if Coon was elected? 

A. I suppose be wanted to know, I can't tell. 

Q. At the time you recalled your resignation, did you not 
come to Montgomery and see Governor Lewis ? 

A. I did not. 

Q. Did you write to him ? 

A. I expect I wrote to him withdrawing my resignation. 

Q. Who asked you to withdraw your resignation. 

A. There were several. I think Col. White was the first 
one. 

Q. Who were the others? 

A. Several. I cannot remember. 

Q. When did White ask you to withdraw it ? 

A. I can't say. 

Q. How long after it w r as first filed ? 

A. It might have been three or six months. 

Q. What reason had Mr. White for your withdrawing 
your resignation ? 

A. He said there was no necessity for it ; that I could 
hold the office. The colored and white people preferred me 
to Coon and I preferred to stay there myself. 

Q. Was Coon obliged to be elected to fill your vacancy ? 

A. I don't know. I was in favor of keeping him out if I 
could. 

Q. Did you not know that Gen. Coon from the beginning 
was opposed to the court house assembly? 

A. I did not. 

Q. When did you first know it ? 

A. I never knew it. 

Q. Did he not tell you so ? 

A. He did not. He always led me to believe he was in 
favor of it ; that I swear to positively. 

Q. Have you ever heard before this time that Gen. Coon 
was opposed to the courthouse legislature? 

A. I can't say I ever heard he was opposed to it. 

Q. Did you not know before your resignation was recalled 
that Gen. Coon was opposed to the court house legislature? 

A. I did not. 



lxxviii. 

Q. Did you not know before that time General Coon was 
opposed to Spencer holding a seat in the U. S. Senate ? 

A. He was opposed to Spencer, but I don't know that he 
was opposed to his holding a seat in the U. S. Senate. 

Q. Was he violently opposed to Spencer ? 

A. I can't say. He is not a violent man. 

Q. Was he not decidedly opposed to him ? 

A. I think he was as decidedly opposed to him as he 
would be to any body. 

Q. Why was he decidedly opposed to him ? 

A. My opinion is, because he did not appoint him to an 
office. I heard him say Spencer had gone back on him. I 
don't think he was opposed to him from any good motive. 

Q. What office had Gen. Spencer promised Gen. Coon? 

A. I don't know what office. 

Q. How did you know Gen. Coon was opposed to him be- 
cause he did not appoint him to office? 

A. From expressions from Gen. Coon. 

Q. What were they ? 

A, One of them was he promised to appoint him collector 
of the port of Mobile. He did appoint him to an office, or 
had him appointed. 

Q. What was it? 

A. Consul to Rio Janeiro. 

Q. At what time did Spencer have Gen. Coon appointed? 

A. It was a year or more before his (Spencer's) second 
election. 

Q. Were Coon and Spencer then friends? 

A. I thought so. 

Q. Have you been at any time opposed to Gen. Spencer? 

A. I think I was opposed to him when Warner was 
elected. 

Q. Were you then a member of the legislature ? 

A. I was. 

Q. Who did you vote for in that election? 

A. For Warner. 

Q. As against whdin ? 

A. Goldthwaite and some republican. 

Q. Was there a violent controversy between Spencer and 
Warner ? 

A. I can't say. I was not into it. 

Q. Was Spencer actively engaged in trying to beat War- 
ner ? 

A. I can't say whether he was or not. 

Q. Were not Warner's friends indignant at Spencer for 
having defeated him ? 



lxxix. 

A. I think they were. 

Q. Were you not one of the indignant friends ? 

A. I took no part except to vote for Warner. 

Q. When did you cease to be a Warner man and become 
a Spencer man ? 

A. I am friendly to both of them now. 

Q. At the time the court house assembly was organized 
did you desire Spencer elected to the U. S. Senate ? 

A. I desired it. 

Q. Were either Mr. White or Mr. Parsons a candidate for 
the same office? 

A. I don't believe they were. I never heard of if. 

Q. Did ycu at that time prefer Spencer over White or 
Parsons? 

A. I could not prefer either of them to him, as I had no 
chance, as neither of them was spoken of to me as candidates 
or in my presence. 

Q. Did you have a personal preference for Spencer over 
any other person for U. S. Senator? 

A. I had no chance to prefer any one else, no one else 
was mentioned. 

Q. Aside from all mention of names, did you prefer him 
over White and Parsons? 

A. J. plid. 

Q. Had you had any interview or correspondence with 
Spencer, between the time you voted for Warner and the time 
you went into the court house assembly? 

A. [ I had both interviews and correspondence with him. 

Q. How many interviews ? 

A. Probably a half dozen. 

Q. Did you have much correspondence ? 

A. Not t much. 

Q. Were they before your election to the legislature in 

1872:.? 

A. Both before and after. 

Q. In any of those interviews, or in any of that corres- 
pondence, ,did you solicit him to have you appointed post- 
master at Selma ? 

A. Yes,, sir. 

Q. Was it after or before your election that you made the 
request? 

A. Both before and after. 

Q. Why, did you make it after your election ? 

A. Because two or three other parties were trying to get 
it. 



Ixxx. 

Q. Had he refused before the election to get you the ap- 
pointment? 

A. He never refused. He always told me lie wanted to 
get me the appointment. 

Q. Were you not a member of the legislature at each time 
you made the request ? 

A. I was. 

Q. Were you not a member for two successive sessions? 

A. I was. 

Q. Why did you solicit him after your electien in 1872 for 
the appointment of postmaster, if before that time, while a 
member of the previous legislature he had promised it to 
you? 

A. Because other men were trying to get it. 

Q. Did you expect him to go back upon you because other 
men were seeking the office ? 

A. I did not. I did not know what influences politicians 
would bring to bear on him. 

Q. At what time and place did you make the last request? 

A. My recollection is, that after his election, he came to 
me and asked me if Col. White had any objection to my ap- 
pointment ? I told him I did not think he had, and went to 
see White, who said he had no objection to the appointment. 
Spencer said it was White's appointment, as it was in his 
town. 

Q. How long after Spencer's election was it that this con- 
versation occurred ? 

A. It was the day after. 

Q. Are you distinct in your recollection of the event just 
named ? 

A. I am. 

Q. How long was it before his election you had a conver- 
sation with Spencer concerning the appointment ? 

A. It was three months, in the summer. It might have 
been three months or it might have been three days, to the 
best of my recollection. 

Q. Which was it to the best of your recollection, three 
days or three months ? 

A. Three months. I had no conversation with him dur- 
ing the time of the sitting of the court house assembly before 
his election. 

Q. Was it modest deference to the General that prevented 
your mentioning the subject to him at that time ? 

A. I felt myself above it, or approaching him about it. 

Q. When did you first know he would be a candidate for 
re-election ? 



lxxxi. 

A. I reckon it was a year or two before. 

Q. When did you first feel yourself above asking him for 
the postoffice ? 

A. When I came here to the legislature the last time. 

Q. Have you not already stated that you wrote to him 
asking for the appointment after you were elected in Novem- 
ber 1872 ? 

A. I have. 

Q- Did you talk with any one here about getting you the 
postoffice while you were in the court house assembly? 

A. Yes; I spoke to Col. White and nearly all the mem- 
bers, and asked them to sign a petition ; I talked to all my 
friends ; I talked to Judge Smith. 

Q. Who else? 

A. Gen. Morgan talked to me and tried to influence me to 
go to the capitol legislature, and leave the court house legis- 
lature ; this was after the election of Senator; he said 
Spencer would not keep any of his promises, and there was 
no reliance to be placed in him ; that a negro would get the 
postoffice at Selma, and I would never get it ; that a negro 
had gone to Dawson to make his bond for the office; (I don't 
know what negro it was) that if I went to the capitol the 
white folks would think more of me ; I stated I did not care 
who got the postoffice, but I could not desert the court house 
legislature. 

Q. Did any of the persons you have named speak to you 
about the postoffice before the election of Spencer? 

A. I think they did; I was told there would be no doubt 
about my appointment to the office by my friends. 

Q. In the conversation had with Gen. Morgan did he tell 
you how he knew Spencer had made promises to you? 

A. I don't think he did. 

Q. Don't you know how he came to know promises came 
to be made ? 

A. I do not. 

Q. Were you surprised to know he knew it ? 

A. I thought he was just joking me. 

Q. Among the persons who talked with ycu before 
Spencer's election you have omitted to mention the names of 
all ; who were they ? 

A. Maj. Clark was one. 

Q. Was J. J. Moulton another ? 

A. I don't think he was. 

Q. Was D. C. Whiting another ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Lewis E. Parsons? 



Ixxxii. 

A. No, sir ; I had a conversation with him afterwards. 

Q. J. J. Hinds? 

A. He was, both before and afterwards. 

Q, When did you have a conversation with him before the 
election of Spencer and during the session of the legislature 
at the court house ? 

A. I don't remember having any with him ; he might have 
had with me. 

Q. What was the conversation about ? 

A. I don't remember what it was ; he might have said I 
would get the postoffice. 

Q. Where did this conversation occur ? 

A. I don't know whether it occurred on the street or at the 
court house. 

Q. How many conversations did you have with Hinds ? 

A. I do not know how many I had with him, or rather he 
had with me. 

Q. What was said, as well as you can remember, about 
your getting the postoffice ? 

A. He said I might get the postoffice, just as you or any 
one might say it. 

Q. Was not Hinds at that time an active supporter of 
Spencer for the Senate ? 

A. He was. 

Q, Was he not the most active supporter of Spencer? 

A. He was one of the most active. 

Q. Do you know of any money Hinds spent in the matter 
of the election of Spencer? 

A. I do not ; I never saw a dollar spent in the election. 

<J. Before Spencer's election were you known as one of 
Spencer's supporters ? 

A. I don't know; I think I was , I know myself I was. 

Q. Were you at that time taken into the councils of the 
leaders of the court house assembly ? 

A. I was in the caucus that nominated Spencer. 

Q. Were you in the other caucuses ? 

A. I don't think I was ; I was in some of them. 
Q. Had you conferences with the leaders of the court 
house assembly as to their policy ? 

A. I don't know that they had any private conferences ex- 
cept to bring about a reconciliation toward the end. 

Q. Did you go to the capitol on the day fixed by law for 
the assembling of the legislature ? 
A. No, sir, I did not. 

Q. Why did you not go there ? 



lxxxiii. 

A. I was told the Republicans were to meet in caucus at 
the court house. 

Q. When you went to the court house did you intend to 
establish the court house assembly V 

A. 1 intended to do as the others did. 

Q. Did you know that it was intended to establish the 
court house assembly before you went there? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you express any opinion in caucus as to w ? hether 
the co art house assembly should be established? 

A. I did not. 

Q. Did you have any opinion on the subject? 

A. I don't remember ; I abided by what was done. 

Q. Did you believe one of the purposes of that organiza- 
tion was to elect a United States Senator? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. ' Did you know an election was to take place for United 
States Senator ? 

A. Yes, sir, during the session. 

Q. Was the question discussed whether they could elect a 
United States Senator if they went to the capital ? 

A. It was the night before the election, but it was not en 
the day of the organization of the court house assembly. 

Q. Between the time of the organization and the time of 
election by that body of Spencer, did you know or hear of 
any arrangement by which any members of that body or 
other persons assisting in carrying out its policy, were to re- 
ceive Federal office or appointment ? 

A. I knew nothing of it. 

Q. Did you believe Gen. Dustan was to receive a Federal 
appointment? 

A. I knew nothing of it. 

Q. Did you believe he was to receive a Federal appoint- 
ment? 

A. I believed nothing of it, for I knew nothing about it. 

Q. Did you believe Calvin Goodloe was to get a Federal 
appointment? 

A. I did not believe anything about it for I did not know 
him then. 

Q. Did you believe Baker or Chisholm were to receive 
federal appointments? 

A. I knew nothing of it. 

Q. Did you not hear the name of some member of the 
-assembly as being likely to get a Federal office? 

A. I did not. 

Q. Do you recollect calling upon Gen. Spencer at any 



lxxxiv. 

time and taking some witnesses wiih reference to the post- 
office? 

A. I never took any witnesses, or went with auy, concern- 
ing the postoffice to Spencer. 

Q. After the attorney general recommended the fusion of 
the two legislatures, did you have any conversation with 
Hinds with reference to the postoffice ? 

A. I don't think I did. 

Q. Did you promise any one that you would adhere to 
the action of the court house assembly after the fusion? 

A. No, sir ; I opposed the bond bill ; I was not required to 
doit. 

Q. Were you not considered a doubtful Republican then ? 

A. I was not. 

Q. When you went into the court house organization did 
Hinds or Spencer know you would support Spencer for the 
Senate ? 

A, I do not know whether they did or not. 

Q. Can you recollect that after the fusion of the two 
bodies, that Mr. McAfee of Talladega county, on the second 
Tuesday of the reorganization of the two bodies, immedi- 
ately after the reading of the journal of the previous day's 
proceedings,, moved to adjourn the house ? 

A. I do not remember it ; I think 1 was outside and came 
in as Hunter was being brought to the bar of the house. 

Q. Did you not know it was agreed in caucus the night 
before that the house should adjourn as soon as the journal 
was read? 

A. I did not. 

Q. Do you not know the object of the motion was to pre- 
vent the election of United States Senator on that day? 

A. I do not. 

Q. Do you know any understanding existing among the 
leaders of the Republican party that Miller was to be seated 
in the Senate? 

A. I knew nothing of it until it was brought up in the 
Senate. 

Q. Have you ever told any person you were promised the 
office of postmaster of Selma before the election? 

A. I might have done it. 

Q. Would you have voted for Spencer if he had not made 
you the promise ? 

A. I would ; the postoffice would not have been in the 
way. 

Q. Would you have gone to the court house and remained 



lxxxv. 

there if you had known Spencer would defeat you for the 
office? 

A. I would, as I was elected as a Republican ; I would not 
take into consideration what he had done for me. 

Q. If you had no opinion whether the court house body, 
or the body at the capitol, was the true legislature, and had 
no desire to elect Spencer, what inducement operated upon 
you to keep you in the court house assembly ? 

A. Because I was a Republican, and thought I belonged 
there. 

Q. Did you have any purpose to accomplish or plan to 
carry out at the time you recalled your resignation from the 
Governor? 

A. No, sir, I had none. 

Q. • Would you have recalled your resignation if any other 
person than Gen. Coon had been nominated? 

A. I rather think I would. 

Q. Were you not in the convention that nominated Gen. 
Coon as your successor in the office you had resigned, and 
did you not take part in the proceedings ? 

A. Yes, I was in the convention and took part in the pro- 
ceedings ; Anderson Smith and Datus E. Coon received a ma- 
jority of the votes for the nomination. 

Q. Whose position was Smith nominated for? 

A. I don't know whether it was for the position White re- 
signed or for the place I resigned ; the chairman announced 
there was no vacancy for my place. 

Q. Were ballots cast for two vacancies ? 

A. They were. My memory being refreshed, the ballots 
first cast were for the seat made vacant by the resignation of 
Mr. White ; afterwards ballots were cast to nominate some 
one for my place. 

Q. Did you inform the convention that you had withdrawn 
your resignation ? 

A. I stated I had not resigned and was going to serve. 

Q. Had you withdrawn your resignation from the Govern- 
or at that time ? 

A. I think I had. 

Q. How long before ? 

A. I think I had it in my pocket and was going to show it, 
but was requested not to do so. 

Q. Was not the reason of your withholding a public state- 
ment that you had recalled your resignation, because you saw 
that Gen. Coon would receive a majority of votes to fill the 
vacancy ? 



lxxxvi. 

A. No. I wanted to serve in the legislature myself my 
time out. 

Q. You were so anxious to serve in the legislature your- 
self, why did you resign at all ? 

A. I did it because I thought it would interfere with my 
other office. 

Q. Did you tell Gen. Coon you recalled your resignation 
to prevent his election ? 

A. I showed him a copy of my resignation. There were 
two papers left with the governor's secretary. One was an 
unconditional resignation, and the other was no resignation 
at all. It was a copy of a paper prepared for Wilson. I no- 
tified the governor at the time how I wished the papers con- 
sidered. He said if that was the case to leave them with his 
private secretary ; that if I wanted him to use them to let him 
know or notify the secretary. 

Q. Is there any statement you desire to make in explana- 
tion of your testimony, or in addition thereto ? 

A. In alluding to the resignations in my testimony, I de- 
sire to say I did not regard them as resignations. There was 
no bargain and sale as to my office with Senator Spencer or 
any one else. 

H. Cochran. 

J. R. HORNER 

Being sworn, says : 

I reside at Tuscaloosa. I resided there in 1872. I am ac- 
quainted with George E. Spencer ; have known him since 
1865. 

By Gen. Morgan — 

Q. Were you in Montgomery pending the election of 
Spencer for the U. S. senate in 1872 ? 

A. I was not. 

Q. Do you know of any influences brought to bear in the 
election of Spencer ? 

A. I do not. 

Q. If you had any knowledge of, or was connected with 
the management of his election, state it? 

A. I had no connection with or knowledge of it ? 

Q. What are the relations between Spencer and Hinds? 

A. I think they are friendly. 

Q. Why do you think they are friendly? 

A. He stayed at Hinds' house in Decatur. 

Q. How do you know he stayed there ? 

A. I have seen him there, and he stated to me he made 
that his home when in Decatur. 



lxxxvii. 

Q. Did not common rumor in and about the neighborhood 
of Tuscaloosa, more than two years ago, connect Speucer and 
Hinds in the post office or mail service? 

A. I have heard people give that as their opinion. 

Q. Were you ever offered any federal office by Spencer :. 
if so, what or when; or his influence to procure you an. 
office? 

A. He offered me his influence. 

Q. Id connection with what office ? 

A. That of consul. But this was not connected with or 
dependent upon any election. 

Q. Was this offer voluntary on his part ? 

A. The promise of influence was. 

Q. Was this before the election in 1872 ? 

A. It was before the canvass commenced in that year. 

Q. Was Spencer under any obligations to you ? 

A. No, sir, nor I to him. 

Q. Did Spencer advise with you in reference to sending 
troops to Tuscaloosa ? 

A. He asked me if troops were necessary to secure a fair 
election. 

J. E. Horner. 

JOHN CASHIN 

Being sworn, says : 

I have lived in Montgomery since July, 1868 ; I have never 
held any public office ; I have a brother a member of the leg- 
islature ; I have been an active member of the republican 
party ; I have done what was in my power to secure its suc- 
cess ; I am a retail liquor dealer ; I had a saloon here in 1872 
on Perry street ; Mr. Spencer owes me a bill in connection 
with my business ; I kept a lunch in connection with my bar ; 
the afternoon of the day before the day of the election for 
United States Senator by the court house body, W. V. Turner, 
with several members of the legislature, came to me and stated 
that Mr. Spencer had told them to get what they wanted on 
his account ; I let them have wine, brandy, whisky and cigars ; 
they run the bill up to $44.85 that, night ;the persons in com- 
pany with Turner were colored members of the legislature at- 
tached to the court house body ; I remember Green, Speed 
and Mathews ; other members of the legislature were going 
backwards and forwards ; I made no charge to these persons, 
but sent the bill over to Mr. Spencer the morning of the day 
before his election, and he paid it ; it was made out : 
"George E. Spencer, 

To John Cashin, Dr. 

For refreshments furnished $44.85." 



Ixxxviii. 

I sent it to Spencer by my bar keeper and he paid him $45 ; 
during the day and night before his election I continued to 
furnish the same parties with refreshments on the same ac- 
count; a bill was made amounting to $162 ; the morning after 
Spencer's election he went away ; I presented the bill to Mr. 
Hinds to whom I had been referred by the parties who had 
been furnished with refreshments, they stating that he was 
attending to Spencer's business; Hinds said he did not know 
anything about it ; that Spencer gave him no instructions 
about it ; that he was going to Washington and would see 
him about it; the bill has never been paid ; I afterwards de- 
manded pay of Spencer in person ; I took the bill to him and 
presented it to him while he was in a room of the Exchange 
Hotel on the first floor ; Mr. Whiting and he were in the room 
together ; he took the bill and looked at it and said, "I will 
not pay it ; I have been paying bills enough of that kind ;" I 
told him I worked for my money and that was all the way I 
had of getting it ; that he got the benefit of it and had paid the 
first bill made on the same account; he replied, "Go and sue 
Bill Turner for it ;" I replied to him, "You know I can get no 
money out of Bill Turner ;" he said he would not pay it, and 
for me to have Turner arrested for obtaining goods under 
false pretenses ; that he was a dead beat and a fraud ; this 
was all that was said by him at the time ; Whiting said he 
supposed Spencer had given Turner no authority to make the 
bill ; I told Whiting to keep his mouth out of it, as he knew 
nothing of it ; this was the end of that interview ; last summer 
I met Spencer again, on Sunday evening after the convention, 
in front of my saloon. 

I asked him to see Turner, who was in the city, and to have 
a settlement of that bill. He told me he did not want me to 
bother him any more about it, and if I wanted any money 
out of him to sue him ; that that was the only way I could 
get it. I told him he knew damned well I could get no money 
out of him or Turner either unless they chose to pay it. I 
remember another interview before this, at the capitol. 
Spencer was in the lobby. I went in the hall of the house 
and called Turner out and told him Spencer was there, and I 
wanted an understanding about that bill. 

He went to Spencer with me, and I said to Spencer, " Here 
is Turner. I want that matter about that bill settled." He 
drove Turner away by saying, " Go away, I am not going to 
pay it. I don't want to be troubled with you." 

The persons who got these refreshments were supporters of 
Spencer in the court house assembly. My house was a con- 
stant resort for the two days before the election of Spencer 



Ixxxix. 

for the colored members of the court house assembly. When- 
ever they ordered it charged to Spencer it was so charged, 
and only when it was so ordered was a charge made to Spen- 
cer. 

I knew Carson, Jones and Maull, representatives in the 
court house assembly from Lowndes county. 

By Mr. Little— 

Q. Do you know whether Jones is addicted to playing 
cards, and if he lost any money at anv time ? 

A. (The witness earnestly requested to be excused from 
answering the question, but being pressed by the committee 
to answer, said :) "He is addicted to playing cards, and I 
have known him to lose considerable sums, amounting in all 
to probably four hundred dollars." 

Q. Were you at that time acquainted with many of the 
colored and white members of the court house assembly ? 

A. I was. 

Q. Did you have conversations with them on the subject 
of the policy of the court house assemblv ? 

A. I did. 

Q. Did you hear of any offices being promised members 
by Spencer or his friends? 

A. I heard members and others say Spencer had made 
promises of office he had not complied with. Recently, I 
heard Hunter say he had been promised a place and did not 
get it. 

Q. For what purpose were these refreshments being used 
as you understood it? 

A. For the benefit of Mr. Spencer. 

Q. Was there any other house open for Spencer's benefit? 

A. Spencer's room was used at the Madison House for 
white members. Bottles and a jug of whisky were in the 
-room andjglasses were sitting out. 

By Mr. Price— 

Q. You say you know Carson, Jones and Maull, members 
of the court house assembly from Lowndes county. State 
any circumstance you know that tends to show they, or either 
of them, received any money from Spencer on or about the 
day of his election by the court house assembly, and how 
much? 

A. On or about the day of Spencer's election, Jones came 
to me to get a one hundred dollar bill changed. He called 
me off into a side door at my place of business and pulled 
out three one hundred dollar bills, out of his vest pocket. I 
said to him, "What is that?" He replied, " This is Spen- 
•jcer," at the same time holding the money up in his hand. 



xe. 

He told me at the same time not to say anything about the 
money he had, as he wanted to give Carsons fifty ($50) dol- 
lars, and Maull twenty-five ($25) dollars. He said he could 
control their votes at any time. It was understood that each 
one of them was to get one hundred dollars, and he did not 
want them to know how much he had got. I have also 
spoken to Jones several times about this matter. I subse- 
quently changed each one of the hundred dollar bills. 

Q. Do you know of any other circumstance tending to 
show that Spencer used money to secure his election ? 

A. It was the common talk and inquiry, " How much did 
you get?" * k How much did you get?" This talk was 
among members of the court house assembly, and others 
seeking positions through Spencer. I frequently heard it 
said, "Now is your time, if you don't get it before the elec- 
tion, you will not get any thing." 

Q. Do you know anything further on this subject ? 

A. I do, but prefer not to disclose confidence that has 
been reposed in me. 

Q. During the time this talk you heard about, what mem- 
bers received, what sort of intercourse was there between 
your house and Spencer's room ? 

A. There was a continual going to and from between my 
house, Spencer's room and the court house. These were the 
three prominent centres. 

Q. Did you ever hear Jones say he got any money fromi 
Spencer in connection with his election ? 

A. Jones told me he got money from Spencer for himself,. 
Maull and Carson. John Cashin. 

EUGETE BEEBE 

Being sworn, says : 

I was living in Montgomery in 1872-3. I knew Geo. E. 
Spencer, J. J. Hinds, D. C. Whiting, W. H. Betts and Charles 
Pelham. 

By Gen. Morgan — 

Q. Were you at any time in the councils of the court 
house assembly, or the leaders of the party ? 

A. I was not. 

Q. Who were understood to be Spencer's most influential 
and active friends in his election before the court house body ? 

A. The persons you have named, I think, were. * I know 
positively only of Betts. 

Q. Please state all that Betts did ? 

A. I know that I procured a pedestrian to walk down into 



XC1. 

Lowndes county for him one night, the roads being impassa- 
ble at the time. Betts told me he paid the pedestrian $50, 

Q. What night was it? 

.^. Shortly before Spencer's election. 

Q. What did he send for to Lowndes ? 

A. To get Bryant to come up. 

Q. What did he want with Bryant? 

A. It was stated that Buckley had bought off the Lowndes 
county delegation, and Bryant was sent for to counteract 
Buckley's movement. 

Q. Did Bryant come ? 

A. I presume he did. 

Q. Did Betts say to you how the influence was to be ex- 
erted ? 

A. He did not. 

Q. What time was it that the messenger started ? 

A. It was late at night. It was thought very necessary 
to get Bryant here. 

Q. Was there any opposition to Spencer in the court 
house assembly ? 

A. I know of no organized opposition to him. If there 
had been I would have known it. 

Q. Do you know of any game of cards being played the 
night before the day an election was to take place at the cap- 
ital by the capitol legislature, in which game a democratic 
member of that body was engaged with D. C. Whiting and 
other persons ? If so, name all the parties engaged in the 
game. 

A. There were D. C. Whiting, Charles Whitney, Geo. 
Ellison and Stribling, a democratic member from the capi- 
tol legislature. 

Mr. Stribling asked me on the night mentioned, about 8 
p. M., if I could not furnish him a private room to play poker 
in ; that he wanted to take a game with the parties just 
named, and for me to keep the parties there until he could go 
and get his cards. He went to the Exchange and got his 
cards and gave them to a negro boy who waited on the room, 
and told him when they called for cards to bring those cards 
in. They then went up into the room and went to playing 
poker. 

Q. Was liquor furnished the party from your bar that 
night? 

A. It was not. They sent out and got their liquor in bot- 
tles. 

Q. Did you see the party any more that night ? 

A. I did not. I saw Stribling next morning about 9 or 



XC11. 

10 o'clock. He was lying on the lounge, in the room where 
they had been playing cards, asleep. The dishes were sit- 
ting in the room where they had eaten breakfast. The ser- 
geant-at-arms that morning came down after him and took 
him out the back way and put him in a carriage. 

Q. Did you know that evening the other parties were there 
for a game ? 

A. They mentioned nothing to me on the subject. 

Q. Had you any idea from his conduct that Stribling had 
been drugged ? 

A. I had not, and when I heard he had been drugged I 
laughed at the idea. I think when I know a man's habits, I 
would know whether he was under the influence of a narcotic 
or intoxicated from whisky. He was not in a stupid condi- 
tion when he spoke to me. I simply regarded that he was 
drunk and down. 

Q. You state you heard he had been drugged; was such a 
report in circulation ? 

A. It was that day. The report was that he had been 
drugged at my house. 

Q. Do you know which of the parties sent out for liquor 
that night ? 

A. I do not. 

Q. Did any of the parties apply to you or your bar for li- 
quors that night, after they went up stairs? 

A. The did not. They might have taken a drink before 
going up. 

Eugene Beebe. 

judge john bruce 

Being subpoened and sworn, says : 

I am Judge of the United States District Court at this time. 
I was appointed as successor to Bichard Busteed, resigned. 
I reside in Wilcox county. I am acquainted with James S. 
Perrin. 

By Gen. Morgan — 

Q. Do you know anything of the requisition for troops in 
Wilcox and Monroe counties in 1872 ? 

A. I do not. I may have heard reports in regard to it. I 
may have seen something in the papers in regard to it? 

Q. Did you at any time solicit the use of troops in that 
vicinity? 

A. I have no recollection of. doing anything of the kind> 
and think I did not. 

Q. Do you know anything of the use made of troops by 



xcm. 



Perrin or Squires in Wilcox and Monroe counties in the year 
1872, about the time of the general election ? 

A. I do not. I have no recollection of ever having seen 
the troops in Wilcox about the time of that election. I think 
I did hear something about the operations of Perrin and 
Squires in Monroe county, but I know nothing of it except 
by report, never having enjoyed the confidence of those gen- 
tlemen, and knowing nothing personally of their plans or 
operations. 

Q. Do you believe you know the reputation of Mr. Perrin 
among the people by whom he is known for truth and verac- 
ity ; if so, what is that reputation ? 

A. I think I may say I do know something of his reputa- 
tion for truth and veracity by the people who know him in 
Wilcox county, though I have never had any intimate ac- 
quaintance with him, and do not know his real character as 
well as I do his reputation. It is not very good. 

Q. Is his reputation such as would make him a credible 
witness in your estimation ? 

A. I should not regard his testimony as entitled to as 
much confidence as many others. 

Q. Have you been an active republican since your resi- 
dence in the State? 

A. I have been a republican and have taken an interest 
in political affairs. Some may think I have been active. 

Q. For what purpose was it your understanding troops 
were brought into Monroe county in 1872? 

A. I know of no troops having been brought there of my 
own knowledge. 

Q. Do you think from your knowledge of Perrin's charac- 
ter, he would be a proper person to put in charge of troops 
for organizing a political party ? 

A. I do not think Mr. Perrin a proper man to have the 
control t)f troops for any purpose. It is possible, however, 
Mr. Perrin may be a better man than I think he is. 

John Bruce. 

ex-goy. lewis e. parsons 

Being sworn, says : 

I was a member of the legislature of 1872-73. I did what 
I could as a member of the republican party at the court 
house organization. 

By Gen. Morgan — 

Q. Will you state what was the object of the organization 
at the court house ? 



XC1V. 

A. I don't recollect that I consulted with any one as to 
any particular object. My own object was to prevent the 
seating of some members from Barbour and Marengo coun- 
ties who had fraudulent certificates, from information I had 
before me, and thereby to secure a fair organization of the 
general assembly. 

Q. Was this the only object of the court house organiza- 
tion. 

A. It was the only object I had. If others had any other 
object it was not made known to me. 

Q. If there had been any other object would you have been 
apt to have known it ? 

A. I can't say ; I can only state what I know. 

Q. Do you know of any organization of men in the inter- 
est of the election of Senator Spencer at any time during the 
sittings of the court house assembly, or after the fusion of the 
court house and capitol bodies ? 

A. If there w^s any such combination or organization I 
know nothing of it. It is very possible there was. 

Q. Were you an active participant in the election of 1872. 

A. I did what I could to aid in the election of 1872. I was 
an elector for the State at large on the republican ticket, and 
a candidate in Talladega, the county of my residence, for the 
legislature. 

Q. Have you any knowledge of the objects of the station- 
ing of troops in Alabama during that election .? 

A. As far as I know the object was to secure to every legal 
voter the right to go to the polls and vote once and return to 
his home without molestation. If any other use was to be 
made of troops it was not known to me and would not have 
received my sanction or support. 

Q. Did you canvass in any other than Talladega county? 

A. I spoke at Florence, Tuscumbia, McNutt's Mills in 
Franklin county, Huntsville, Wetumpka,Kockford, Lafayette, 
Dadeville, Opelika and Montgomery. I may have spoken- at 
other places I cannot now recall. 

Q. From your information and knowledge gained in that 
canvass, did you believe the stationing of troops in certain 
localities necessary to secure a fair election ? 

A. I then thought it was necessary ; I thought it was nec- 
essary to have them in the county in which I live, to preserve 
the peace and to prevent any conflict on the day of the elec- 
tion, which if it took place would result in bloodshed. 

Q. Do you think they were necessary in any other county ? 

A. I was not sufficiently informed to have a decided 
opinion. 



xcv. 

Q. Do you know of any troops being ufed for any other 
purpose than simply to preserve the peace? 

A. I do not. 

Q. Were you elected to the legislature from Talladega 
county in 1872 ? 

A. I was. 

Q. Did any friend or emissary of Gen. Spencer visit you 
for the purpose of getting you to withdraw or have you taken 
down as a candidate? 

A. I had no personal knowledge of such visit, and only 
knew from being iuformed of it sometime afterward that such 
visit was made. 

Q. WHo was the person you understood was sent? 

A. I prefer not to give the name. (Being informed that 
Barber had testified to the fact.) Robert Barber was the 
person. It was a long time after the election before he in- 
formed me. 

Q. Were you at any time at or before your election to the 
legislature in 1872, a candidate for the U. S. Senate ? 

A. I was not a candidate, but* several friends had sug- 
gested to me I might stand a chauce to be elected. I had not 
decided to be a candidate and was not. 

Q. Do you know the handwriting of George E. Spencer? 

A. I have seen letters purporting to be from him ; I would 
not have known the letters were from him had I not seen his 
name signed to them. 

(The witness ^as handed the letters of Gen. Spencer, 
marked Exhibits E. and F., to "My Dear Barber," and re- 
quested to read them. After he had done so the examination 
was renewed.) 

Q. In the letter shown you dated Oct. 16, 1872, and ad- 
dressed by George E. Spencer to "Dear Barber,'' is the follow- 
ing language : "Parsons has a deep laid scheme to elect him- 
self, and has now gone to New York to try and raise money 
to be used in the legislature/' Is there any foundation in fact 
for that assertion ? 

A. Not a particle. 

Q. Were you in New York in October, 1872 ? 

A. I was. 

Q. In a letter, dated Oct. 22, 1872, addressed by Geo. E. 
Spencer to "My dear Barber," he uses the following lan- 
guage : " I wish Randolph, deputy U. S. Marshal, would use 
the company at Opelika in making arrests in Tallapoosa, 

Randolph and Cleburne, as suggests." Did you know 

of, participate in, or counsel that any such use be made of 
troops in this State? 



XCV1. 

A. I did not. 

Q. Was there, within your knowledge, any understanding; 
or agreement among the leading republicans in this State, in 
that canvass, that U. S troops should be used for making ar- 
rests in Tallapoosa, Randolph or Cleburne, or any other 
counties, or that they should be put under command of dep- 
uty U. S. marshals for any such purpose? 

A. I know nothing of any such understanding or agree- 
ment. 

Q. Was not Geo. E, Spencer a prominent member of the 
party in that canvass? 

A. He was the republican U. S. senator, and was consid- 
ered the leader of the party in the State. 
Q. Was he not active in the canvass? 
A. I should suppose he was, but I did not see him but 
once during the canvass, that I recollect. 

Q. At the time of the organization of the court house as- 
sembly, did you know SpeLcer would be a candidate for re- 
election ? 

A. I did not know it, but I had no doubt of it. 
Q. Did you, at the time of the organization, believe that 
he would be elected ? 

A. I did not think about the matter at the time. The ef- 
fect it might have upon him or his re-election was not in my 
mind at that time. 

Q. Was he then in Montgomery ? 
A. He was not, as I remember. 

Q. On his arrival in Montgomery, did he announce him- 
self as a candidate? 

A. I suppose he did. I don't recollect he ever said a 
word to me on the subject, pro or con. 

Q. When he announced himself, was he the choice of a 
majority of the members of the court house assembly? 

A. It is my opinion he was not the first choice of a num- 
ber of the members. 

Q. Why was he unanimously nominated in caucus, and 
unanimously elected? 

A. Because it was rumored he would be elected by the 
capitol legislature if we did not elect him ; that he would 
take enough members from the court house legislature to the 
capitol legislature to break us up. 

Q. Do you know any fact personally that justified you in 
believing this rumor ? 

A. I do not. I heard he was invited to meet democratic 
members at the Exchange Hotel ; that he attended, and that 
the subject of the senatorship was spoken of; and I also 



XCV11. 



beard that within a day or two after, that his attention was 
called to this meeting, and he said he would stand by the re- 
publican party, and sink or swim with it. This was before 
his election. 

Q. Was he nominated because of your faith in his last 
promise so made, or because the party entertained a real fear 
that he would abandon the court house assembly and carry 
off with him enough members to destroy its quorum ? 

A. I have already stated that we feared if we did not 
nominate him the capitol legislature would, but it is proper 
to add, that a majority of republican members thought it was 
due to him to elect him any how, and he would have received 
the nomination by a majority over any one else in a party 
caucus, and we did nominate him in caucus unanimously. 

Q. Did you believe, if nominated by the capitol legisla- 
ture, he would accept the nomination ? 

A. I don't know what others thought, but I thought my- 
self if we refused to nominate him, and the democrats did 
nominate him, he would accept the nomination. 

Q. Did you not believe he had a following in the court 
house legislature he could take off with him to the capitol ? 

A. I feared it. 

Q. Can you name any of the persons who were his most 
active friends and supporters for U. S. senator in the court 
house assembly ? 

A. A majority of the members in the house were his sup- 
porters. Among the more influential were P. G. Clarke, 
Gen. Dustan and Hunter. 

Q. Do you know of any active part taken in Spencer's 
ejection by J. J. Hinds, D. C. Whiting and H. Kay Meyer? 

A. Meyer was understood to be his friend. The other two 
gentlemen were here and took an active part in electioneering 
for Spencer, as I understood. 

Q. At the time of the organization, was it not thought 
Chisholm and Baker were not elected ? 

A. On the contrary, it was understood that they were 
fairly elected, and it only needed an investigation to satisfy 
any fair-minded man of the fact. 

Q. Was any report ever made to the effect that they were 
elected ? 

A. I don't recollect. 

Q. Did either of them claim a seat in the consolidated 
legislature ? 

A. I do not think they did. 

Q. When in a former answer you have given in this ex- 
7 



xcvm. 

amination, you say your own object in the organization was 
to prevent the seating of some members from Marengo and 
Barbour who had fraudulent certificates, from information 
before you, and thereby to secure a fair organization of the 
general assembly, in what respect do you mean to assert the 
certificates they held were fraudulent ? 

A. I understood' the Republican candidates in Barbour 
and Marengo, for the senate and house, had been elected by 
decided majorities, and that they had been deprived of their 
certificates, in what way I did not know ; I knew those coun- 
ties were largely Republican, or had every reason to believe 
they were. 

By Mr. Price— 

Q. Had you any knowledge of the returns in the office of 
the secretary of state ? 

A. I had no personal knowledge and had not examined 
the returns. 

Q. What other information had you as to the returns 
made? 

A. I had nothing more than reports, I did not see the offi- 
cial returns, 

<J. Did your knowledge of the political complexion of those 
counties enter into the formation of your opinion of the re- 
sult? 

A. It did ; as well as also the first reports made in the 
papers as to the results of the election in those counties. 

By Gen. Morgan — 

Q. Were the certificates held by the members of the capi- 
tol assembly considered by you as having been fraudulently 
issued by the secretary of state ? 

A. I could not say he, himself, had been guilty of a fraud 
in their issuance, but that some one was guilty of a fraud in 
depriving the members from Barbour and Marengo of their 
certificates. 

Q. Did you understand the supervisors of elections in 
Barbour and Marengo, had fraudulently issued certificates of 
election to the members from those counties in the capitol 
assembly ? 

A. I can't say I understood any one in particular had done 
it ; nor that fraudulent certificates had been obtained. 

Q. Was the fraud complained of the fraud of those who 
conducted the election or those who certified ? 

A. I can't say. 

Q. In reference to the members from Marengo, both to 
the senate and house of representatives, did you not take the 
position that because you were assured they were elected, 



XC1X. 

they were entitled to be seated in the respective bodies and 
participate in the organization thereof, notwithstanding they 
held no certificates of election ? 

A. My idea was that the right to a seat depended on the 
fact, whether a party received a majority of the legal votes 
and not upon certificates of election. If these members had 
received a majority of legal votes, that was the question we 
were to look at, and they should have their seats. 

Q. "With the view of the legal question just stated, if it is 
correct, what impediment was known to exist among the mem- 
bers assembled at the capitol to prevent a fair discussion and 
settlement of it between those assembled at that place and 
those assembled at the court house ? 

A. I don't know how others viewed the matter. My own 
opinion was, the state of political feeling was such that if the 
republicans had gone into the State house organization, giv- 
ing the democrats the benefit of six members who had no 
right to seats in that body in reality, that we would not have 
been able to obtain a decision in season to prevent great 
changes we understood were in contemplation by the demo- 
cratic party in our State government. Past experience tended 
to strengthen this view. When the convention of I86i as- 
sembled, two members from Shelby county presented certifi- 
cates of election to that body who were not entitled to seats 
therein, their opponents having received a majority of legal 
votes cast in that county ; they were permitted to take their 
seats, and the delegates really elected instituted a contest, 
but were not able to obtain a decision upon that contest until 
the ordinance of secession was passed, on the 11th of Janu- 
ary, 1861, nor was action had on that momentous question 
until those entitled to speak the voice of Shelby county could 
be heard in that convention. After the ordinance of secession 
was passed ; after various military movements and prepara- 
tions for others were on foot, counsel for contestants were 
informed that the investigation would result in no practical 
good ; for, though they were entitled to their seats, the State 
had taken her stand, the ordinance of secession had been 
passed, and it was suggested that it would be best on the 
whole for them to take their mileage and go home, as what 
was done could not be undone. 

Q. What great changes was it contemplated that the 
members at the capitol would work in the affairs of the State 
if they obtained control of the legislature in a joint meeting 
of the two bodies ? 

A. We understood they contemplated calling a constitu- 
tional convention to change the constitution, for one thing - 



that they contemplated changing the election law, so as to 
require every person to vote in his own precinct ; that the 
prepayment of a poll tax was to be one of the requisites of 
voting ; that an educational or property qualification, or both,, 
would be imposed as a requisite for voting ; this was to be 
done when the constitution was amended. 

Q. Was the election of U. S. Senator one of the changes 
contemplated ? 

A. Not that I know of. 

Q. Did you think compelling a man to vote in his own 
precinct injurious to the republican party ? 

A. We thought it aimed at colored voters of the republi- 
can party, more particularly. 

Q. Did you think it necessary to secure the right of the 
negro to vote, that he should go away from home to do so ? 

A. We thought it necessary for him to vote at precincts 
where he had friends, who would see that he had the ticket 
he wished to vote ; and that the object of the democratic par- 
ty in requiring him to vote in the precinct of his residence 
was designed to defeat that. 

Q. Did you not think it more necessary that he should be 
allowed to vote according to the wish of his friends? 

A. No, sir. I have never seen the time I wished a man 
to vote a ticket other than he desired to vote. 

Q. Did the friends of the negroes all reside in one place 
in the county or in one precinct ? 

A. In different precincts, so far as I know. 

Q. If they resided in different precincts, why did they 
have to go abroad to find friends to protect them in voting? 

A. Because in many instances they had been intimidated, 
so that they were afraid to go to the polls and vote by them- 
selves. They said they were. 

Q. You have had large experience in political canvasses 
in Alabama and elections, can you state one instance in your 
own knowledge where such intimidation occurred? 

A. I can not. 

Q. When did you first become convinced the negro ought 
to be entitled to vote ? 

A. When by the adoption of the 14th and 15th amend- 
ments to the constitution, his right to vote became a part of 
the organic law of the United States and of Alabama. 

Q. Then of course you voted for and advocated those 
amendments? 

A. I did neither. I was opposed to the adoption of both. 

Q. Can the constitution of Alabama be amended except 
by a vote of the people ? 



01. 

A. That is the only way. 

Q. Was there any danger to the republican party if they 
were in the majority in the State, in submitting a constitution 
for their acceptance or rejection ? 

A. We understood the democratic party contemplated 
changing the election law, so as to make that majority una- 
vailable. 

Q. Did not that majority become unavailing before last 
November, anH was any change made in the election law be- 
fore that time ? 

A. No change was made in the wording of the law, but in 
the practice I understood there was a very great change — es- 
pecially along the line of the counties bordering on the State 
of Georgia. 

Q. l)o you really believe the State of Alabama gave a re- 
publican majority in the last election ? 

A. I think the republican party carried the election last 
November in a fair count of legal votes. 

Q. How do you think it was in New York ? 

A. I don't know any thing about the State of New York. 

Q. Could the right of a man to vote depend upon his pre- 
payment of his poll tax without changing the constitution? 

A. His right to vote could not be taken from him ; but 
the mode of exercising it can be regulated by legislative enact- 
ment. 

Q. Keturning to the secession convention held in 1861, 
and to the fact that it rejected two members from Shelby, 
why is that considered by you a precedent upon which the 
capital legislature would act in 1872? 

A. Many of the same men who were active in respect to 
matters in 1861 were active in 1872, and the importance of 
the questions involved in 1861 to the interest of the people of 
Alabama, were such as to lead me to suppose that the men 
who would disregard them in 1861, would disregard them in 
1872. 

Q. Were the men whom you assume to have disregarded 
those interests you mentioned, in 1861, members of the capi- 
tol legislature ? 

A. They were not ; but some of them were active in ad- 
vising. 

Q. In advising what? 

A. Advising the State house legislature. 

Q. Was not Lt. Gov. McKinstry, who presided in the 
court house senate, a violent secessionist in 1861 ? 

A. I don't know. 

Q, Was not that his reputation in 1861 and during the war ? 



Cll. 

A. I don't know what his reputation was in 1861. His 
reputation during the war was that of a very moderate man. 

By Mr. Price— 

Q. You say "it was said" and "it was understood that cer- 
tain great changes in the constitution were in contemplation 
by the Democratic party;" will you explain more specifically 
by whom it was so said and how so understood? 

A. I don't think I could give the name of any individual, 
it was the general impression ; it was thought that unless some 
great ideas were to be carried out they would not have taken 
such great risks ; we were not in the councils of the Demo- 
cratic party and could only judge of their purposes by such 
means as were within our reach, and the correctness of the 
opinion we then entertained is very much strengthened by 
what has transpired during the recent session of the legisla- 
ture of this State. 

By Gen. Morgan — 

Q. What was the great risk you refer to as the Democratic 
party taking ? 

A. In taking those members from Marengo and Barbour 
into the senate and house ; if the members from those coun- 
ties had been allowed to take the seats to which they were en- 
titled, who were really elected, there would not have been two 
organizations ; the Democrats would have had a small ma- 
jority in the senate and the Republicans a small majority in 
the house, but they acted differently and lost all. 

Q. The risk you speak of was to the Democratic party 
and not to the country? 

A. The Democratic party is a part of the country, and its 
action affects the country, as we have a painful experience in 
our recollection of 1861, and for some years thereafter. 

Q. Then you regretted that by taking such risk it lost its 
influence ? 

A. I regret that any party should do anything essentially 
wrong. 

Q. Were you the speaker of the court house assembly and 
af terwarcls of the consolidated body ? 

A. I was. 
. Q. Did the court house assembly continue its sessions 
after you were elected permanent speaker of the fusion legis- 
lature ? 

A. It did ; the old organization was kept alive by meeting 
from day to day, until the new organization was perfected in 
both the house and senate. 

Q. Did you preside as speaker in both organizations ? 

A. I did, so far as meeting and adjourning in the old or- 
ganization. 



cm. 

Q. Was the fusion legislature and the court house legisla- 
ture held at the same place ? 

A. They were held at the same place but not in the same 
room ; the meetings of the court house assembly were in the 
office of the clerk of the house ; they were held at different 
hours; no business was done other than to meet and adjourn. 

Q. Were not two bills passed by the court house legisla- 
ture after your election as speaker of the fusion legislature 
by the court house assembly? 

A. I have understood two bills were passed of the nature 
indicated, at the court house, by the court house assembly ; I 
was sick at the time and confined to my bed ; I can't say 
whether this was after my election as permanent speaker of 
the two bodies. 

Q. Was the house of the fusion legislature fully organized 
when you were elected permanent speaker? 

A. That depended on whether the senate completed its 
organization. 

Q. Was the senate organized with a Democratic majority? 

A. My impression is that there was a Demecratic majority 
of one, but I can't state with certainty. 

Q. If there was a Democratic majority of one in the 
senate of the fusion legislature, how could there have been a 
quorum in the senate of the court house assembly? 

A. I suppose that under the plan of the attorney general 
of reorganizing, a Democratic senator was admitted, who, 
upon a fair count of the legal votes may not have been 
elected, but I don't know this to be so. 

Q. What senator do you refer to? 

A. I have no one in my mind. 

Q. Was it not understood by the Kepublicans, in both 
branches of the consolidated general assembly, that in order 
to sustain the action of the court house assembly in electing 
a United States Senator, it was necessary that Miller's con- 
test for Martin's seat should be decided in favor of the con- 
testant Miller? 

A. I don't think I ever heard that question discussed at 
all ; I may have heard the opinion expressed among members 
that it was, but my own opinion was the reverse ; I thought 
the senate organized at the court house recognized by the 
house of representatives, which certainly contained a majority 
of members legally elected to that general assembly, and both 
senate and house being recognized as the general assembly of 
the State by the Governor, would render that body the senate 
de facto, and its public acts valid. 

Q. Did you not advise that the senate and house should 



CIV. 



pass a resolution recognizing the validity of the court house 
assembly, after the fusion ? 

A. I don't recollect anything about the Senate ; I am con- 
fident I did not advise the senate anything about it, but such 
a resolution passed the house and I presume I voted for it, as 
it accorded with my views. 

Q. Did any persons vote for it in the house except those 
who had been members of the court house assembly ? 

A. I do not remember. 

Q. If the court house body was a legal body, why the ne- 
cessity of the adoption of the resolution by the fusion legis- 
lature? 

A. I think there was no necessity for it. 

Q. Was it not agreed in caucus or consultation of the 
leaders of the Kepublican party that Judge McKinstry should 
rule, and an appeal should not be taken from his decision, in 
which he refused to put a motion to reconsider a vote to sub- 
stitute the minority for the majority report in the Martin- 
Miller contest ? 

A. Not that I know of; I know of no consultation in re- 
gard to such a decision, and did not know that one was to be 
made until I heard it had been made in the senate. 

Q. Do you consider the ruling of Lieutenant Governor 
McKinstry in refusing to put an appeal from his decision to 
a vote of the senate, deciding the motion to reconsider out of 
order, in accordance with parliamentary law and usage ? 

A. I do not; I thought then and think now, it was his 
duty to put the appeal. 

Q. Did you consider the court house legislature a valid 
body before it received the recognition of Gov. Lewis ? 

A. I did not. 

Q. Did it receive the recognition of Gov. Lindsay during 
his term of office ? 

A. Not that I know of. 

Q. Did not a joint committee of the two houses of the 
court house assembly wait upon Gov. Lindsay asking his re- 
cognition ? 

A. I have an impression that the committee waited on 
him and he refused to recognize them. 

Q. During the time of the remainder of Gov. Lindsay's 
term, after the assembling of the legislature at the capitol 
and its organization, did you regard that as the legislature of 
Alabama? 

A. If there was a regular organized Senate or House at 
the capitol and each recognized the other, and the Governor 
recognized them both as the General Assembly of the State, 



cv. 

any act passed by them would have the force of law. I think 
that that would be a General Assembly of the State. 

Q. Would your opinion of the legality of such a body so 
recognized by the Governor, depend upon whether the mem- 
bers holding seats were actually elected or whether they held 
certificates issued in conformity with law? 

A. The certificate of election, regular on its face, is only 
prima facie evidence of right to a seat and it is sufficient to 
authorize the Senate or House to seat a man, and, of course, 
to authorize the Governor to recognize a body so organized 
as the General Assembly ; but fraud vitiates such evidence, 
as it does all other acts, even the most solemn acts of courts 
of justice, and when it is discovered such certificates have 
been fraudulently obtained the Governor is justified in with- 
drawing his recognition of a body when a majority is only 
secured by means of such fraud. 

Q. Do you think the Governor can substitute one legisla- 
tive body for another by his recognition? 

A. I don't think he can ; but it is his duty at all times, 
when communicating with the General Assembly, to decide, 
where there are two bodies, each claiming to be the General 
Assembly, which body he will recognize as such. 

Q. Does his recognition of each body in succession make 
the body so recognized the General Assembly ? 

A. As a general proposition I think it does. There may 
be an exceptional case, as where a body composed of men 
a majority of whom hold fraudulent certificates. 

Q. Do you not think such power as this would furnish a 
Governor with a convenience in avoiding impeachment? 

A. It might do so. 

Q. At the time the court house assembly convened, was 
not Mr. Hubbard, the speaker of the last House, in town? 

A. I did not see him. 

Q. Was any committee appointed to notify him the legis- 
lature was about to meet at the court house ? 

A. Not that I know of. 

Q. After the fusion legislature was organized in both 
branches, and on the 2d Tuesday of such organization, did 
not the house of representatives, over which you presided, on 
motion of Mr. Afee of Talladega, vote to adjourn, and was 
not that motion put and carried immediately after the read- 
ing of the journal in the morning? 

A. I can't say it was the 2d Tuesday after the reorganiza- 
tion of the two bodies. I remember Mr. McAfee made a mo- 
tion to adjourn in the morning and it was carried. I do not 



CV1. 

know whether it was immediately after the reading of the 
journals or not. 

Q. Was that not the day upon which an election for sen- 
ator of the United States would have taken place according 
to law, dating the commencement of the session of the legis- 
lature from the reorganization ? 

A. Yes, if that was the 2d Tuesday, on that assumption, 
that would have been the day. 

Q. Did you not know or believe that motion would be- 
made before you went into the house that morning? 

A. I had an idea a motion to adjourn soon after the house 
assembled would be made. 

Q. Was it not the purpose of that motion to prevent an 
election for U. S. senator on that day? 

A. If that was the purpose, it was not made known to me. 

Q. What did you understand was the object of the mo- 
tion? 

A. It was understood that Mr. Hunter, acting in concert 
with some others or under their advice, was to offer a resolu- 
tion declaring the court house legislature an illegal and un- 
authorized body ; and that such a resolution would produce a 
long and acrimonious debate which would open up old wounds, 
and it was to prevent this the motion was made. 

Q. Don't you know Mr. Hunter voted for a resolution re- 
cognizing the legality of the court house assembly ? 

A. I do not know how he voted. 

Lewis E. Parsons. 

EX- GOV. W. H. SMITH 

Being sworn says : 

By General Coon — 

Q. In what years were you Governor of Alabama ? 

A. In 1868-9-70. _ 

Q. Was any requisition made for troops during your ad- 
ministration as Governor of Alabama ? 

A. There was. 

Q. Who made it? 

A. It was made by me and in connection with a committee 
of the general assembly appointed to go to Yfashington and 
solicit troops ? 

Q. What was the object in bringing troops ? 

At\this point Mr. Price objected to the question, and to all 
questions relative to the use of troops during Gov. Smith's 
administration, as irrelevant. The committee sustained the 
objection and the examination of Gov. Smith was resumed. 

By Gen. Coon— 



CV11. 

Q. Were vou an active participant in the campaign of 
1872? 

A. I took some interest in it, but was not so active as 
some. 

Q. Did you make any speeches in the interest cf the repub- 
lican party in the canvass of that year ? 

A. Yes ; two or three, perhaps more. 

Q. Do you know of any troops being brought to the 
State? 

A. I saw troops in the State, but know nothing of my per- 
sonal knowledge of how they came here. On reflection I re- 
member I heard some one in Montgomery say that Spencer 
was in Washington to see about getting some troops to be 
brought into the State to procure a fair election, or to protect 
voters. My recollection is not distinct. 

Q. Did you hear of any other purpose than to preserve the 
peace ? 

A. I did not. 

Q. Had you any understanding the troops were to be used 
for political or personal purposes ? 

A. No ; I never had any such understanding with any one, 
nor did I ever hear the matter discussed in that light. 

Q. Were you here on the assembling of the court house 
legislature ? 

A. I was. 

Q. Did you come here as the friend of Spencer ? 

A. I did not; but on the other hand I came to defeat him 
for the United States Senate, or doing what I could in that 
direction. 

Q. Did you hear anything said in regard to any influences 
being used by Spencer to secure his election ? 

A. I was not on speaking terms with Spencer, and am not 
now. I have spoken to him once under peculiar circum- 
stances. 

Q. If you heard any conversation at your room at the 
Madison House in relation to the pairing off of Glass and 
Edwards, state it ? 

A. I can't say a conversation I heard in the hall of the 
Madison House, as I was passing through relative to the pair- 
ing off, but I heard a conversation between J. J. Hinds and 
some other parties ; I think Moulcon was of the number ; it is 
an indistinct impression however as to Moulton. There was 
something said about Edwards going to North Alabama, and 
as to when he would return. I remember distinctly hearing 
Hinds say : "I have fixed him," and in that connection I heard 
the words "$500." This was ail I heard. 



cvm. 

Q. "Was there any understanding among the leading re- 
publicans in the State that troops were to be brought here for 
political purposes ? 

A. There was not. I. was opposed myself to the use of 
troops except in cases of absolute necessity to preserve law 
and order. 

By Mr. Little— 

Q. Might not Mr. Spencer have had troops used without 
your knowledge ? 

A. He might have done so ; it is possible ; I had no con- 
nection with the use of troops in that year. 

Q. What were the relations between Spencer and Hinds ? 

A. Most intimate. 

Q. What were the relations between Spencer and Kobert 
Barber? 

A. I only know what Barber told me at that time ; he said 
he was working for Spencer's election. 

By Mr. Price — 

Q, What position did Barber hold in the party ? 

A. He was somewhat prominent ; he had considerable lo- 
cal influence in Montgomery county, and was secretary of the 
republican State executive committee. 

By Mr. Little— 

Q. Do you know by what means Spencer secured his elec- 
tion to the Senate ? 

A. I myself was very much opposed to Spencer's election; 
I saw a good many were in favor of his election, and I said 
nothing much about it. I know Spencer had rooms at the 
Madison House, and that in one he had wines, cigars, &c., 
which were dealt out to the members of the court house assem- 
bly and others. I frequently saw white and colored members 
in there ; Brainard stayed there ; I saw Hinds about fre- 
quently. 

Q. Do you know whether there were any disaffected mem- 
bers of the court house assembly that had to have induce- 
ments held out to them to remain ? 

A. I only heard there were some weak-kneed members. 

Q. What part did Hinds seem to be taking in Spencer's 
election ? 

A. He was the most active man in the city of Montgom- 
ery in Spencer's behalf, according to my observation. He 
worked with members and those who were not members. 

Q. Were you in the confidence of Spencer so as to know 
what means were used ? 

A. I was not, and when I fell out with Spencer, Hinds 
seemed cool towards me ; before that he was cordial ; I knew 



C1X. 



of no other cause than the difference with Spencer — the differ- 
ence between myself and Spencer during the first investiga- 
tion by congress into the conduct of Judge Busteed. 

The witness was here handed the two letters, Exhibits E» 
and F., from Spencer to Barber. 

By Gen. Morgan — 

Q. Where did you live in 1872 ? 

A. In Bandolph county. 

Q. Do you recollect whether any troops were stationed at 
Opelika in October, 1872 ? 

A. I think I do, 

Q. In a letter addressed by George E. Spencer to "My 
Dear Barber," dated Oct. 22, 1872, he says : "I wish Kan- 
dolph, deputy U. S. marshal, would use the company at Opelika 
in making arrests in Tallapoosa, Randolph and Cleburne;'* 
were any such arrangements made by the leading republicans 
of Alabama, within your knowledge or belief ? 

A. I never knew or heard of it before reading these 
letters. 

Q. Look at the two letters shown you of October 16th and 
October 22d, 1872, from Spencer to Barber, and state wheth- 
er, from your knowledge of Spencer's handwriting, they were 
written by him ? 

A. I am acquainted with Spencer's handwriting, and after 
examining them, I say they are in his handwriting. 

W. H. Smith. 

W. W. GLASS 

Being sworn, says : 

I was elected Senator from Macon county in 1872 ; I am 
not a member of the Senate at this time ; I resigned at the 
close of the last session of the legislature ; I was in Mont- 
gomery on November 18th, 1872, the day fixed by law for the 
meeting of the general assembly ; I held a regular certificate 
of election ; I did not go to the capitol that day ; I went to the 
court house ; no legislature had ever met at the court house 
before that I know. 

By Gen. Morgan — 

Q. Why did you go to the court house ? 

A. Because my party was meeting there. I met Judge 
Pelham while I was on my way to the capitol, and he told me 
of the meeting at the court house. 

Q. Did Pelham tell you the legislature or a caucus was 
going to meet at the court house ? 

A. He said the legislature, and that they were waiting for 
me to come up. 






ex. 

Q. Did you not know the capitol was the proper place 
to meet ? 

A. We had always met there before ; I had been a mem- 
ber of the Senate four years before this. 

Q. When you got there did you go into a caucus or into 
the general assembly ? 

A. In the general assembly as I thought ; the roll was 
called in the Senate. 

Q. Who was presiding ? 

A. I think Senator Pennington presided for a day or two. 

Q. Where was Lt. Gov. Moren that day ? 

A. I did not see him. 

Q. What was your object in meeting at the court house? 

A. I don't know ; I went there because my party did. 

Q. When did you first see Mr. Spencer after you met at 
the court house ? 

A. Shortly after. 

Q. Did he talk to you about being a candidate for the 
Senate ? 

A. He said he was a candidate. 

Q. Was he your preference? 

A. I can't say. 

Q. Were not Messrs. Parsons, Pennington and White 
spoken of? 

A. I think they were. 

Q. Were you one of the thirteen known to be opposed to 
Spencer ? 

A. I don't know; I know there were other men I preferred 
to Spencer; I talked this to my friends, or mentioned it 

Q. Do you know J. J. Hinds? 

A. I do; I sat side by side with him in the Senate for four 
years. 

Q. Was Hinds a member of the court house senate? 

A. He was a member of the legislature from 1868 to 1872, 
but was not a member in 1872. 

Q. Was Hinds at the court house when that body met? 

A. I think he was. 

Q. Where did he live then? 

A. I understood from him at Decatur. 

Q. How long did he remain in Montgomery? 

A. Until after the Miller-Martin contest was decided. 

Q. Was he not here working more actively than any other 
man in Spencer's interest? 

A. I think he was ; I know of no other business he had. 

Q. Did Hinds not talk to you about Spencer's election ? 

A. I think he did. 



CXI. 

A. Was Dot W. H. Betts there working for Spencer's 
election ? 

A. I should judge so from what I saw him doing. 

Q. Did you vote for Spencer in the caucus that nominated 
him? 

A- I don't recollect, but I voted for him in the legisla- 
ture. 

Q. Before that election did you not know of a room where 
Spencer entertained his friends? 

A. I know he had a room where I went and got several 
drinks of fine liquor. It was called Spencer's liquor, and was 
a free thing. I saw many going in and out drinking. I went 
in and drank frequently. 

Q. Was this kept up until after Spencer's election? 

A. I think it was. 

Q. Did you draw any money for pay from the treasury up 
to the time of Spencer's election ? 

A. I think I drew mileage. I think I did not draw any 
per diem. I took my warrant home with me amounting to 
$606. When I went home I had to send back $40 to pay my 
board. 

Q. How much money did you bring with you from home? 

A. About $40 or $30, I can't say positively. 

Q. How much was your mileage ? 

A. Thirty-six dollars. 

Q. Do you recollect drawing any thing but your mileage 
and the warrant for $606, while you were here? 

A. I do not. 

Q. How much was your board ? 

A. I boarded with Matt Blue at one dollar per day. 

Q. Are you a man of wealth ? 

A. I live very savingly. We have in the family a store, 
two plantations and a mill. 

Q. Which of the plantations belong to you ? 

A. One belongs to my son, the other to my wife. The 
efcore is under control of my son. 

Q. How far do you live from Montgomery ? 

A. Forty- five miles. 

Q. After you met in the fusion legislature a contest arose 
concerning the seat of Martin by Miller. The journals show 
that the vote was taken on that contest on the 30th January, 
1873. On Tuesday the 28th, the journals show you got leave 
of absence for three days. The journals show that on the 
29th of January, 1873, Senator Edwards got leave of absence 
for ten days. At the time you got leave of absence when 
was it understood the Martin-Miller contest would come up ? 






CX11. 

A. There was no understanding with me when it would' 
come up. 

Q. What agreement did you have with Edwards about 
pairing off on the vote to be taken in settlement of the Martin- 
Miller contest ? 

A. My understanding was this : I told Edwards I had 
leave of absence for three days, and Edwards proposed to 
pair off with me for ten days on this contest. I told him if I 
got leave of absence for ten days (I had already leave for 
three days) I would not vote in the Martin-Miller contest. 
This is my recollection. 

Q. What was then said ? 

A. Nothing more was said. 

Q. Did you sign a written contract with Mr. Edwards in 
the presence of Senators Coleman and Carmichael, the pur- 
port of which was that you would pair off with Edwards for 
ten days. 

A. If I did I don't recollect it. 

Q. Was the agreement you made with Edwards made in 
the presence of Senators Coleman and Carmichael? 

A. It was. 

Q. Did not you agree that neither of you would vote dur- 
ing the three days leave of absence on that contest ? 

A. There was no such agreement as to the three days. 

Q. Would you have left here without pairing off with 
somebody during the pendency of the Martin-Miller contest. 

A. I did not care much about it. I would rather have 
got out of voting. 

Q. Did not Edwards leave here with the understanding 
that he was paired off with you. 

A. I do not know. 

Q. Did you not go over to the depot at the same time 
Edwards went ? 

A. I did, and he saw me over there. I afterwards had a 
conversation with him in which he told me his friends had 
not treated him right in not granting me the ten days leave 
and in not telegraphing him that the leave had not been 
granted. 

Q. Did the trains on which you and Edwards were to go 
leave at the same time? 

A. About the same time, I don't know which left first. 

Q. Were you to have gone on the same road ? 

A. No, I was to go on the Western road. 

Q. Did you get on the train and how far did you go ? 

A. I got on the West Point train and went to the*Eair 
grounds near this city, about 4 miles. 



CX111. 

Q. Did you stop the train or was it stopped for you ? 

A. I suppose it was stopped by W. H. Betts. I did not 
-have it stopped. 

Q. Was W. H. Betts on the train ? 

A. He was at the time it stopped. 

Q. Was he not on it when you started ? 

A. I don't know. 

Q. Did you not have an understanding about it ? 

A. Not at that time. 

Q. Did Betts ask you to" 1 get off the train at the Fair 
grounds? 

A. He said, " Let's go back to the city ; you can go there 
and stay until the three days are out and vote in the Martin- 
Miller contest" — that I had a right to do so. I told him I 
would not do that. 

Q. Did you object to getting off? 

A. I did not. 

Q. Was any other inducement held out to you save the 
mere statement of Betts? 

A. None at all. 

Q. Why had you got three days leave of absence ? 

A. It was my understanding I was to get three days leave 
of absence, and they would suppose I was gone, and would 
take up the Martin-Miller contest. 

(After this answer was taken down the witness changed his 
answer, as follows : 

It was my understanding that I was to get three days leave 
of absence, and that at the expiration of that time the Martin- 
Miller contest would be taken up, and that I would have the 
right to come back.) 

Q. Was there any thing said about the Martin-Miller con- 
, test when you got the three days leave of absence ? 

A. Nothing that I recollect of. 

Q. When you got out to the fair grounds how did you 
expect to get back to town?j ! 

A. W. H. Betts met up with me in the cars and got at me 
..to come back, and said there would be a carriage there to 
earry me back, in a short time, which came. I got in the 
carriage and came back with W. H. Betts. 

Q. Was it a close carriage ? 

A. Yes, sir, it was. 

Q. What place did Betts take you to ? 

A. The Madison House. 

Q. Did he not put you in a room there and tell you to 
. remain concealed ? 
8 



CX1V. 

A. A room was furnished me; he did not tell me to re- 
main concealed. No person knew I was there but my repub- 
lican friends, that I know of. I saw a good many people ; I 
did not know what or who they were. 

Q. Was it not understood you were to remain concealed, 
and did you not take pains to conceal yourself from all but 
those who knew of the reasons for your being there ? 

A. I did not make myself very conspicuous. I did not 
wish everybody to see me. I was to remain concealed as 
mnch as possible and I did so. I had no conversation with 
any one I did not know were my republican friends. I re- 
member conversing with Hinds, Baker, McKinstry and 
Dustan. 

Q. If you went out at all in the day time were you careful 
to avoid being seen by any one who would be likely to disclose 
you were in Montgomery ? 

A. I was careful that the democrats did not see me. 

Q. Did Hinds, Baker, Dustan and McKinstry know of the 
purpose to keep you in Montgomery. Did not they or some 
of them talk to you about it ? 

A. Yes, they talked of the purpose of keeping me in 
Montgomery. I don't know that I talked with each one of 
them, but with some of them I did. 

Q. Did not McKinstry know that you were kept concealed 
in Montgomery with the intent that you should be notified 
when the vote was about to be taken on the Martin-Miller 
contest, and that at that moment you should appear and vote. 

A. I do not know what McKinstry knew. He knew I was 
there. 

Q. Who of the four men you have named did know what 
is stated in the foregoing question ? 

A. I think Hinds and Baker understood it ; the others I 
could not say ; I don't know. 

Q. Do you not believe, and did you not then believe that 
all of them knew it? 

A. Yes, I believe they all knew it. It is my opinion. 

Q. Did not W. H. Betts know the purpose for which you 
were kept in Montgomery ? 

A. From what he said to me he must have known it. 

Q. Were you not informed during your concealment in 
the Madison House, from time to time of the stage of the 
proceedings in the Senate on the Martin-Miller contest ? 

A. I was. 

Q. Were you not told that you would be sent for at the 
proper moment to vote on that contest ? 

A. Yes, I was. 



cxv. 

Q. Having a leave of absence for three days and not hav- 
ing used it to go home, why did you not return to the Senate 
chamber and take part in the proceedings. 

A. Because I had leave of absence for three days and 
didn't intend to go back within the three days. 

Q. Did you believe that you had the right to return to 
the Senate and vote on the Martin-Miller contest at any time 
within the three days covered by your leave of absence ? 

A. I did not think that I had ; neither would I have done 
it. T understood my three days were out. 

Q. The journals of the Senate show that your leave was 
granted on the 28th of January, and that you voted on this 
contest on the 30th of January. Can you count three days 
between those dates ? 

A. I can not. 

Q. What time of day, on the 28th, did you leave the 
senate, and what time of day, on the 30th, did you return to 
it and vote in Martin-Miller contest? 

A. 1 left on the morning of the 28th ; I cannot say what 
time of day it was; it was about 12 or 1 o'clock, to the best 
of my recollection, when I returned on the day I voted. 

Q. Were you not advised by Hinds, or Betts, or Baker, or 
McKinstrv, or some other person, that you had the right to 
vote on the 30th ? 

A. I was ; I think they all advised me, to the best of my 
recollection. 

Q. Why did you believe that you did not have the right 
to vote on the Martin-Miller contest, during your three days 
leave of absence? 

A. Because I said I would go away and stay for three 
days, and would not vote during that time. 

Q. Did you not say this to Edwards? 

A. I don't recollect whether I did or not. 

Q. If you did not say it to some one with whom you 
agreed to pair off, what possible obligation did you conceive 
that you were under to keep the promise ? 

A. If I said I would not return and vote for three days to 
any one I said it to Edwards ; I reckon I told Edwards so. 

Q. Don't you know you told Edwards so ? 

A. Yes. 

Q. Did you buy any goods in Montgomery during the 
session of the legislature that winter ? 

A. I did not. 

Q. How much was your board bill ? 

A. I paid a dollar a day. 



CXV1. 

Q. Did you get any money changed during that session 
of the legislature ? 
A. I did not. 

Q. Did you borrow any money during that winter ? 
A. I did not. 

Q. Did you pay your board bill for the time you were 
concealed at the Madison House ? 

A. I did not ; I was going to pay it and somebody said 
they would pay it for me. 
Q. Who was it? 

A. I think it was Hinds, to the best of my recollection ; I 
stayed there afterwards, and for that time paid it myself. 

Q. While you were there concealed were you furnished 
with whisky ? 

A. I went to Spencer's bar, in his room, and got what 
whisky I wanted. 

Q. Did you not hear McKinstry, Baker, Hinds, or Whi- 
ting, say that it was necessary in order to secure Spencer's 
seat in the senate that the Martin-Miller contest should be 
settled in favor of Miller ? 

A. I heard some conversation to that effect, but I can't 
say what was said. 

Q. Who was the conversation with ? 
A. Some of these men. 

Q. Did not some of these men say that this was the reason 
why it was necessary that your vote be recorded in favor of 
Miller in that contest ? 

A. I think there was something to that effect said, to the 
best of my recollection. 

Q. Did you not agree to stay and vote for Miller ? 
A. It was understood I would vote for Miller. 
By Mr. Little— 

Q. Who went to the capitol with you when you went to 
vote? 

A. W. H. Betts. 
Q. How did you go ? 
A. In a close carriage. 

Q. When you got into the capitol were there a large num- 
ber of men in the lobby ? 

A. There was a crowd in the senate. 
Q. When you went into the senate chamber was the vote 
being taken ? 

A. It was being taken or just had been taken, to the best 
of my knowledge ; I called the attention of the president and 
recorded my vote. 
By Mr. Price— 



CXV1.1 

Q. You stated to the committee before the oath was ad- 
ministered, this morning, that you went home, forty-five miles, 
on the day you left Montgomery and returned the same day 
in a carriage ; you have since sworn that you only went as 
far as the fair grounds ; why did you make this statement ? 

A. I wanted to waive the thing ; I was not under oath 
then. 

Q. Why did you want to waive the thing ? 

A. I did not want to tell anything about this thing any- 
wav. 

Q. Why didn't you want to tell ? 

A. I didn't want to be persecuted. 

Q. Do you think it would persecute you to tell the truth ? 

A. By certain persons it would. 

By Mr. Brewer — 

Q. Did you not desire to screen others? 

A. I would if I could by talking a little, but I would not 
if I was put on my oath. 

W. W. Glass. 

J. D. BEALE 

Being sworn, says : , 

By Mr. Price — 

Q. Where do you reside and where did you reside Nov. 
1872? 

A. I reside in Montgomery, and in 1872 was a clerk in the 
Exchange hotel. 

Q. Do you know Wm. Stribling? 

A. I do ; he was a member of the legislature in 1872 ; was 
a member of the capitol and of the consolidated body. 

Q. Where did he board in Dec. 1872 ? 

A, At the Exchange hotel. 

Q. Do you recollect the time when the election of United 
States Senator took place in the capitol legislature ? 

A. I recollect the time but not the date. 

Q. Do you know where Wm. Stribling was at that time, 
and what do you know about him? 

A. On the evening before the election for United States 
Senator was to take place by the legislature at the capitol, a 
boy came with a note for Mr. Stribling — he said he came from 
Mr. Beebe's — I told him Mr. Stribling was not in ; shortly 
after Mr. Beebe came himself and asked if Mr. Stribling was 
in ; I told him I did not know ; he then asked for a servant 
and was shown to Mr. Stribling's room ; Mr. Stribling did 
not stay in his room that night ; the sergeant-at-arms came 
to me looking for Stribling next day ; I went to his room and 



CXV111. 

other rooms and did not find him ; I did not see him for three 
days afterwards ; he was very sick after that, and I sent for 
a doctor. 

Q. About what time of day did Beebe come for Strib- 
ling? 

A. Between 7 and 8 o'clock, p. m. 



J. D. Beale. 



F. TITCOMB 



Being sworn, says : 

By Mr. Little— 

Q, Where do you reside? 

A. In the city of Montgomery. 

Q. "What connection did you have with the legislature of 
Alabama, assembled at the State House, known as the Capi- 
tol Legislature? 

A. On the 21st day of November, 1872, 1 was elected ser- 
geant-at-arms of the house of repi esentatives. 

Q. Do you know of any means used to prevent any mem- 
ber of the house of representatives from being present to 
prevent a quorum during the days when the two houses were 
attempting to elect a United States Senator; if so, please 
state in full what you know about the same ? 

A. On the 7th of December, the house met, and upon 
calling the roll no quorum was found present — fifty members 
only answering to their names. Mr. Speaker Stone called 
me to his seat and informed me that Mr. Stribling, a member 
of the house from Washington county, was in some part of 
the city, secreted and drunk, and ordered me to proceed and 
arrest him and bring him to the house, as the senate would 
come in at 12 M. for the purpose of electing a U. S. senator, 
and that if Mr. Stribling was present the house would have 
a quorum. I asked him if he could inform me at what place 
I could find Stribling. He referred me to Mr. Chapman, a 
member from Clarke county, who informed me that Stribling 
was secreted at the Rialto. This place is situated on Market 
street, having a bar-room below, and the rooms above have 
the reputation of being used as a gambling establishment. 
Mr. Chapman, of Clarke, Mr. McHugh, a member from 
Mobile, and myself, started for this place, and upon our ar- 
rival there, I asked the negro man who had charge of the 
rooms above, who was standing at the door, if Mr. Stribling 
was in any of the rooms. His answer was "No," but that 
he was there during the evening before. I then went up 
stairs and met Mr. Henshaw, one of the proprietors, and in- 
formed him of my official position, and the order I had to 



CX1X. 

execute. He informed me Stribling was present last evening 
in company with Mr. Whiting, chairman of the radical State 
executive committee, Jake Farden and George Ellison, and 
that he had no objection to my " hunting him up." I then 
went into one of the back rooms and found Mr. Stribling on 
a sofa, in a fearful condition, in a state of unconsciousness. 
In a few moments he drew up his legs and arms and threw 
them out straight. I tried to get him up but found it impos- 
sible. I then left him in charge of responsible persons and 
went for Dr. Fremon, a physician, who came, and after ex- 
amining Stribling, pronounced him drunk and drugged. 
This was about 11 o'clock A. M. The negro said the whisky 
they had did not come from the bar below, but was brought 
by those who came with Stribling, in a bottle, which was then 
on the side-board. I took the bottle and found it about half 
full, and remarked, if that was was all they drank, Stribling's 
condition could not be produced by the effects of the whisky. 
The negro then said they drank up the first bottle before 12 
o'clock, and one of the party went out and brought it in 
again full. Three small glasses were on the side-board with 
cocktails in them. I asked the negro to take a drink with 
me from the bottle, and he said he would rather drink one of 
the cocktails, for they came from the bar below, aad he knew 
they were good. A gentleman took up the cards from the 
table and remarked they were " marked" cards. Looking at 
them, I found this to be the fact, and put the three which I 
now have in my pocket. Dr. Fremon and myself made every 
exertion to awaken Mr. Stribling, but found it impossible. 
Dr. F. then gave me some medicine and I gave it to Stribling 
as he directed. In about one hour it had the effect the doc- 
tor said it would have. We worked upon him until about 
one or two o'clock, and succeeded in getting him up. We 
then took him in a coach to the Exchange Hotel, and had a 
strict watch kept of him until the election of senator took 
place. 

I obtained a vial from the drug store of Wade McBryde, 
and rilled it with whisky from the bottle I found in this room, 
and have it now in my possession. Mr. Stribling, with the 
assistance of friends, attended the sessions until the 10th day 
of December, at which time Mr. F. W. Sykes was elected 
senator by the house and senate, in the hall of the house — 
51 members of the house and 18 members of the senate be- 
ing present — Sykes receiving every vote. After which he 
was taken to the house of Mrs. Morse, in the vicinity of the 
capitol, and was confined by sickness for some weeks. He 
was not a well man during the balance of the session, and I 



cxx. 

believe lie has never fully recovered from the effects of that 
night's debauch. The night before this occurrence, Mr. 
Whiting, one of the men who was present at theKialto when 
he was drugged, offered to bet me one hundred dollars that 
the capitol legislature would not have a quorum on the next 
day. I declined the bet, but little thought that Spencer and' 
his friends would resort to such tricks to prevent it. Upon 
the eighth day I found Mr. Mancill absent from roll call. I 
was directed to arrest him, and found he had left the city 
without the consent of the house, on the ground that his 
children were sick. I went to Covington county for him and 
learned from his wife he had started back to Montgomery. 
She also stated that the family were all well, and none of 
them had been sick. I had Mr. Mancill present in the house 
on the 10th. 

It was the general conversation among the republicans at 
this time, that senator Spencer had plenty of money, and 
found the members of the court house body with as much as 
they wanted for their daily expenses, to keep them in that 
body, as they could not draw any pay from the State treasury. 

F. Titcomb. 

DE. JAMES A. FREMON 

Being sworn, says : 

I reside in the city of Montgomery, and resided here in 
1872. I am a practicing physician and surgeon. 

By Mr. Little— 

Q. Were you at any 'time called to see Wm. Stribling, a 
member of the legislature ? 

A. I was, on December 7, 1872, as well as I can remem- 
ber. It was on the day for the election for U. S. senator at 
the capitol. 

Q. Who came for you ? 

A. Mr. Titcomb. 

Q. Where did you find Mr. Stribling ? 

A. In a room over the Bialto saloon. 

Q. State his condition when you found him, and for what 
you treated him ? 

A. I found him under the influence of an opiate, but evi- 
dently he had been drinking and had opiates mixed with his 
drink, or he had taken an opiate separately. I found him 
with all the symptoms of poisoning with opium, and consid- 
ered him in a dangerous condition, and treated him accord- 

Q. Did you inform him of his condition ? 



CXX1. 

A. I informed him he was in a very dangerous condition 
and must be careful with himself, as soon as sufficiently re- 
suscitated to have his mental faculties under control. 

Q. Did you see him afterwards? 

A. I saw him the second day after this and discharged 
him on that day. 

By Mr. Brewer — 

Q. Who are the proprietors of the Eialto saloon ? 

A. Messrs. Beebe & Henshaw, as I understand. 

By Mr. Price— 

Q. Was he at all sensible of his condition when you were 
first called to him ? 

A. He was not. 

Q. What kind of a room did you find him in, and how 
was it furnished ? 

A. It was an up-stairs room, the third room back, I think. 
The room was furnished with a lounge, a bureau, &c. 

By Mr. Parks— 

Q. Was his condition such as to incapacitate him for busi- 
ness for any length of time ? 

A. His condition was such as to prevent his properly at- 
tending to business, either of a mental or physical character, 
for at least two days. 

J. A. Fremon, M. D. 

M. D. BRAINARD 

Being sworn, says : 

By Gen. Morgan — 

Q. Had you any official connection with the court house 
assembly that met in Montgomery in 1872 ? 

A. I had not. 

Q. State where you resided at that time, and whether you 
were an active member of the republican party ? 

A. I resided near the city of Montgomery, and was con- 
sidered an active member of that party. 

Q. Do you know George E. Spencer, and how long have 
you known him? 

A. I do, and have known him for some years. 

Q. Were your relations with him intimate when he was a 
candidate for the Senate ? 

A. They were friendly. 

Q. Who were his most intimate and active friends when he 
was a candidate for the Senate ? 

A. J. J. Hinds, H. Bay Mayers, J. J. Moulton, P. G. 
Clarke, D. C. Whiting, Mr. Baker, at present marshal north- 
ern district of Alabama, Mr. Betts and others. 



cxxu. 

Q. Was Mr. Baker at that time a member of the court 
liouse assembly ? 

A. He claimed to be a senator from Morgan and the other 
counties in that senatorial district. 

Q. Did you take an active part is assisting in Spencer's 
election ? 

A. I took a part in it. 

Q. What was the necessity for any activity in securing 
Spencer's election? 

A. There was an opposition that would have been very 
formidable if it had been allowed to develop itself, and it was 
thought best to crush it in its incipiency. Mr. Keynolds and 
Mr. Parsons were thought to be formidable opponents, and 
were spoken of as candidates. 

Q. Did you have any conversation with Spencer and Hinds 
on the subject ? 

A. I don't remember consulting with them; I know I spoke 
to others. 

Q. Did not Gen. Spencer at that time have almost exclu- 
sive control of the federal patronage in this State? 

A. He controlled it to some degree, but not exclusively. 
, Q. Name Gen. Spencer's most active friends in the court 
house assembly ? 

A. Messrs. Parsons, White and P. G. Clarke were his most 
influential, if not most active friends. 

Q. Were you satisfied that Spencer had friends that he 
could have taken with him to the capitol ? 

A. Beyond a doubt ; he could have broken up the court 
house assembly in a half hour ; seven-tenths of the members 
would have followed him. 

Q, Were you not equally certain that Messrs. White, Par- 
sons and McKinstry favored Spencer's election to prevent 
him from taking off his friends to the capitol assembly ? 

A. I do not know the motives governing those gentlemen. 

Q. Is it your opinion that they were controlled in their ac- 
tion for the reasons named in the last question? 

A. I considered Gen. Spencer master of the situation, be- 
cause he had it in his power to break up the court house as- 
sembly at any time, and by collusion with the capitol legisla- 
ture secure his election. I had been informed overtures had 
been made to Buckley by the democrats, and I was satisfied 
they would not stickle on one man, their object being to get 
control of the legislature. 

Q. Could you have considered a collusion between the cap- 
itol legislature and Gen. Spencer's friends in the court house 



CXXU1. 

assembly possible unless you believed Gen. Spencer would 
have engaged in such a collusion? 

A. I thought he would have engaged in such a plan ; the 
idea with me was that he was determined to be elected U. S. 
Senator. 

Q. Do you think he would have^hesitated to form this col- 
lusion to secure that result? 

A. If a sufficient opposition had developed in the court 
house assembly to defeat Mr. Spencer, some combination with 
the capitol assembly might have been formed. I heard at 
that time Gen. Spencer had been present with some demo- 
crats and had made some invidious remarks against the re- 
publican party. This is one ground of my belief in the last 
assertion made. I heard also the democrats had offered to 
make Spencer senator if he would break up the court house 
assembly. I give it as my personal belief, he would not have 
hesitated if it had been the dernier resort. 

Q. With whom did the idea originate of forming a sepa- 
rate assembly at the court house? 

A. I mentioned it first in the republican State executive 
committee rooms to Mr. Barber, the clerk. I afterwards men- 
tioned it in the editorial room of the State Journal to Mr. 
Bingham and others, as a good piece of political strategy, 
which I conceived to be justified by the occasion. It was said 
it was impossible to organize that way ; that the legislature 
must meet in the capitol. I examined the law and found it 
required the legislature to meet "at" the capitol instead of 
"in" the capitol. It was suggested there by those with whom 
I conversed that the legislature meet at the capitol and organ- 
ize with a rush and hurrah after the style of the Arkansas 
legislature. I advised that it would be best to organize as a 
seperate body, keep up the organization until the governor, 
whose election was not questioned, was inaugurated and re- 
cognized the court house assembly by message. The gov- 
ernor was then to compel the dispersion of the capitol assem- 
bly, and if necessary call for troops to carry out his purpose. 

Q. Was not this strategy adopted and advocated on your 
part with a view to secure Spencer's election? 

A. It was one of the motives that impelled me ; I also de- 
sired to secure the fruits of a Republican victory. 

Q. What other of Spencer's friends concurred with you 
in that view ? 

A. They all finally concurred ; some wer^conservative and 
weak-kneed at first, but finally came in. The whole matter 
was submitted to Messrs. White, Parsons aud Ex-Gov. Smith; 
they were considered the shining lights of the party. 



CXS.1V. 

Q. How long was it after this long consultation before the 
court house body assembled ? 

A. Several days. 

Q. Was there any plan agreed upon to prevent the organ- 
ization of the capitol legislature ? 

A. I suggested the arrest of the Marengo members and 
the sending of some one to Russell county to scare the county 
supervisors so as to cause them to make a fair return. 

Q. To whom did you make these suggestions ? 

A. To Mr. White and Mr. Whiting and other republicans., 

Q. What did Mr. White say ? 

A. He said, "that is smart." 

Q. Was the plan suggested by you adopted ? 

A. The men were arrested, and Minnis, U. S. district at- 
torney, went up to Russell. 

Q. Was not the purpose of this plan to arrest the certifi- 
cated members from Marengo county to prevent a quorum in 
the capitol assembly ? 

A. I thought they had violated the law and ought to be 
arrested, and I thought this a good opportunity to prevent a 
quorum at the capitol. 

Q. How long was it before Calvin Goodloe joined the court 
house assembly after it first met ? 

A. I cannot say. 

Q. Did you consider that Baker and Chisholm were 
elected ? 

A. If so, I thought it was a great stretch. 

Q. Were they not induced to go into the Senate for the 
purpose of filling up the ranks of that body with the hope 
that they would get seats there? 

A. They claimed to be elected. 

Q. Upon what was their claim founded ? 

A. Upon their election. 

Q. Were you not satisfied they were not elected ? 

A. I always looked with suspicion on contestants. 

Q. Was not the introduction of Baker and Chisholm a pari 
of the strategy adopted ? 

A. I give it as my opinion that it was. 

By Gen. Coon — 

Q. Did you hear Chisholm say anything about votes be- 
ing thrown out in Limestone ? 

A. I heard him say they had thrown out a large number 
of his votes, and *hat he was elected. 

By Gen. Morgan — 

Q. Was it not your opinion at that time, notwithstanding 



cxxxv. 

the claims set up by Baker and Chisholm to seats, that they 
were not elected or entitled to seats ? 

A. I think at that time I was of the opinion they were 
elected, and was influenced in that opinion by the action of 
the democratic party in Marengo and Barbour counties. 

Q. Do you know what part Moulton took in Spencer's 
election ? 

A. He was very active ; I saw him frequently in consulta- 
tion with Hinds and Spencer. 

Q. Do you know of any money being brought here by him 
and used in Spencer's election ? 

A. I know nothing of my own knowledge. 

Q. Did you keep a room with refreshments at the Madison 
House, during the time Spencer's election was pending? 

A. I did ; I had champagne, liquor, cigars, <fcc, in room 
10 ; I kept it red-hot; I kept it for Spencer and his friends ; 
it was free to all. Spencer came to me several times and 
said he did not want me to be spending so much of my own 
money, and asked me if I did not want some money ; I told 
him no, but finally took a hundred dollars ; he gave no direc- 
tion as to its use. 

Q. Do you know whether Spencer promised any person 
office in consideration of his support of him ? 

A. I heard men talking and say they had a dead thing ; 
I know men took advantage of the occasion to press their 
claims. 

Q. Were you satisfied from the surroundings such prom- 
ises were made ? 

A. I was morally certain such was the case. 

Q. Do you know whether Hinds paid any money to any 
one in consideration of his support of Spencer ? 

A. I do not. 

Q. State any influences you know were used to induce the 
Lowndes county members to keep away from the capitol as- 
sembly ? 

A. It was rumored Buckley had got these members, in 
consideration of $1,000 each, to go to the capitol assembly. 
A watch was put upon them, consisting of Kob't Barber, J. 
<J. Hendrix and others ; a professional pedestrian was pro- 
cured to go to Hayneville and notify Bryant to come up to 
the city, as his presence was needed to influence the action of 
the Lowndes negroes ; the pedestrian went that night, saw 
Bryant, who came to the city the next morning by 9 A. M. 

Q. Do you know of any money having been used with 
any Democrats, or have you any information on the subject? 

A. Pelham came to me one day and said he wanted to 



CXXV1. 

get Peddy, an Independent from Lee county, out of town. I 
let him have some money, which he afterwards gave back to 
me saying, he had no need of it as he got him passes. 

Q. From whom did you get the money ? 

A. I got $10 from Spencer; I did not tell him what I 
wanted with it ; I furnished the balance. 

Q. Did Peddy leave? 

A. He did. 

Q. State any instance of like kind you know of? 

A. I was running room No. 10 ; a man introduced himself 
to me as a Democratic member from the capitol assembly, 
and inquired if Gen. Spencer was in ; I invited him to take 
drinks, which he did, and I then took him across to Spencer's 
room and introduced him. There was some talk with me, in 
which he said he wanted to see Spencer about postoffice mat- 
ters or mail contracts. 

By Gen. Coon — 

Q. Did you know anything about Goodloe ? 

A. It was rumored he was an applicant for the custom 
house at Mobile. 

Q. Why was he so long getting down to the court house 
assembly ? 

A, I supposed he was waiting to be convinced. 

Q. Was he acting as a spy for the court house assembly 
or for Spencer ? 

A. I thought he was trying to get the Democrats in deep 
water ; I can't say he was acting as a spy. 

Q. Do you know of any agreement that was made with 
Mr. Goodloe to induce him to come to the court house assem- 
bly? 

A. I can't say that I do, more than the general agreement 
of party policy ; it was understood Mr. Goodloe was the inti- 
mate friend and had great influence with Gov. Lewis ; it was 
thought his co-operation with the court house assembly was 
of great importance ; he seemed slow to come in, but I don't 
know his reasons for it ; he acted with great alacrity when he 
did come in. 

By Gen. Morgan — 

Q. After the recommendation of the attorney general had 
been made, what was agreed upon by the managers of the 
court house movement as being the essential points to|be 
made so as to sustain Spencer in his seat ? 

A. A resolution was to be passed by the reorganized* leg- 
islature, declaring and affirming the legality of the court 
house assembly ; this resolution passed the house but failed 
in the senate ; that resolution having failed the same object 



CXXXV11. 

was attaiDed by a decision of the supreme court, in the case 
of Screws v. Kagland. Miller was to be seated if possible. 

Q. Do ycu koow anything of the circumstances connected 
with the appearance of Glass at the moment the vote was to 
be taken in the senate in the Martin-Miller contest, and with 
reference to his havicg been secreted in town to be> dropped 
in on the senate at the proper moment? 

A. It had been intimated to me Mr. Glass would arrive 
from Macon before the vote was taken in the Martin-Miller 
contest ; I also had hints that Mr. Glass was about the capi- 
tol keeping out of the way ; while the ayes and noes were be- 
ing called, Mr. Glass dropped in, with a cotton umbrella un- 
der his arm, an old grey shawl over his shoulders, and a lean, 
lank carpet-bag in his hand, and asked to have his name 
called. He was dusty and had the appearance of having just 
come off of a journey. 

Q. I suppose you were amused at Mr. Glass' sudden ap- 
pearance as if he had come off of a journey? 

A. I went to the capitol to enjoy the tableaux and was 
not disappointed. 

By Mr. Brewer — 

Q. Do you know how many of the court house assembly 
have received Federal appointments since Spencer's election, 
and who they are ? 

Mr. Calvin Goodloe, Collector of Customs, Mobile, Ala. ; 
A. P. Wilson, Postmaster, Montgomery, Ala. ; C. W. Dustan, 
Treasury Agent ; N. S. McAfee, United States District Attor- 
ney ; Geo. N. Duskin, United States District Attorney; P. G. 
Clarke, Special Agent Postoffice Department ; Baker, Mar- 
shal Northern District Ala. ; J. W. Dereen, Postmaster, De- 
mopolis ; J. N. Pennington, Governor Dakota ; L. E. Par- 
sons, United States District Judge, at present Assistant Dis- 
trict Attorney ; John Bruce, United States District Judge ; 
Chisholm, Inspector Customs ; Cochran, Postmaster Selma ; 
Goldsby, Route Agent Postoffice Department. These are all 
I can remember at this time. 

By Gen. Morgan — 

Q. Do you consider the ruling of Lieutenant Governor 
McKinstry in the Martin-Miller contest in deciding the mo- 
tion put by Senator Cobb to reconsider, and renewed by Sen- 
ator Parks, out of order ; and the refusal to put the appeal 
from his decision, as arbitrary and wrong, or correct. 

A. In my opinion the ruliog was highly improper and con- 
trary to parliamentary law and usage. 

M. D. Bkainard. 



CXXXVH1. 

W. T. HATCHETT, 

Being sworn, says : 

I am the administrator of Francis Widmer, who died in 
October, 1873, in the city of Montgomery. Keeently before 
his death he was revenue collector for the middle district of 
Alabama. I was informed by Louis Fritz, Jr., that at the 
time of Widmer's death he (Fritz) held two notes ; one on 
George E. Spencer and one on J. J. Hinds. I do not remem- 
ber that Fritz stated the amounts of these notes. I demanded 
them of Fritz as the property of Widmer. He said they were 
not the property of Widmer ; that he had given them to his 
(Fritz's) wife and they belonged to her. I have the impres- 
sion on my mind that the notes amounted to $3,000. After- 
wards I instituted suit against Fritz for the notes and he de- 
nied having them, as I understood. The demand on Fritz 
for the notes and his response was in the presence of Judge 
Eice. Widmer at the time of his death was a heavy defaulter 
to the government. An account has been sent from the de- 
partment at Washington against Widmer's estate, in which a 
deficit is charged of $40,000, to the best of my recollection. 
Widmer had no estate at the time of his death, except a few 
desks and two safes. He was a book-keeper at the time of 
his appointment as collector. 

W. T. Hatchett. 

B. H. KNOX, 

Being sworn, says : 

I am a member of the republican party. I am at present 
solicitor of this county, and was formerly a member of the 
legislature. I was in Montgomery at the organization of the 
court house assembly. I was a member, by proxy, of the 
republican State executive committee at the time. 

By General Morgan : 

Q. What was the leading object of the meeting of the 
court house assembly ? 

A. To secure republicans of the General Assembly and to 
elect a U. S. Senator to succeed Hon. George E. Spencer, 
whose term expired in the succeeding March. 

Q. Were you actively engaged in politics here at the time, 
and were you familiar with the views of the leading men of 
the republican party. 

A. I was, and was myself elected solicitor in the previous 
November election. 

Q. Will you state the means by which Baker, Chisholm, 
Alfred English, or either of them, procured to be seated in 



CXX1X. 

the court house assembly and whether either of them were 
believed to be elected ? 

A. I don't recollect any means by which they procured 
their seats, nor do I remember what was the opinion concern- 
ing their election. 

Q. Were Chisholm and Baker friends of Spencer? 

A. They were warm supporters and friends. I have met 
Baker with Spencer at the house of Col. Hinds in Decatur. 

Q. Who was the most active supporter of Spencer — his 
most active friend and most fully authorized agent? 

A. J. J. Hinds was considered as Spencer's " managing 
man." Capt. Whiting was very active ; also Maj. Peter G. 
Clarke, special agent postofnce department. 

Q. What other members of the court house assembly were 
active supporters of Spencer ? Was George M. Duskin ? 

A. I think he was. 

Q. How was Wilson of Montgomery ? 

A. He was a strong supporter. 

Q. How was Gen. Dustan ? 

A. He was a strong supporter. 

Q. Can you name any others ? 

A. T. J. Clark (col'd) of Barbour, J. K. Green (col'd) of 
Greene, B. R. Thomas of Marengo, all of the Montgomery 
members, S. H. Murphy, since deceased, W. J. Gilmore and 
A. H. Curtis. 

Q. Did Spencer have any opposition in that legislature ? 

A. It was feared there was opposition. Hon. Alex. White 
and ex-Gov. Parsons were mentioned as candidates. 

Q. State whether Spencer and his friends conducted the 
canvass actively ? 

A. They did. 

Q. State as far as you can what means were used ? 

A. I remember on one occasion speaking to Spencer, tell- 
ing him he ought to reward some of his supporters. He 
spoke of promising a place. 

Q. Who did he promise ? 

A. He told me that he promised Dr. Cloud, member from 
Montgomery county, a place for his son-in-law, C. H. May. 
Application had been made for a route agency on the South 
and North Railroad, and Spencer said he would get some- 
thing better for him. 

Q. Did such information come to you, as solicitor, that 
you felt it to be your duty to ask for a special grand jury to 
investigate alleged briberies of members of the legislature? 

A. It did, and the grand jury was organized. 
9 



cxxx. 

Q. Did you issue subpoenas for members of the legislature- 
to come before the grand jury and testify? 

A. I did. I offered as a part of my testimony a paper 
marked " G," which so far as it relates to the proceedings in 
the court and legislature, contain a true narrative of what 
occurred in reference to the matter mentioned in the ques- 
tion. 

"EXHIBIT G." 
Hon. 31. Carpe7ifer, Chairman Committee on Elections, U. S» 

Senate, Washington, D. C. : 

Sir : The subjoined statement is very respectfully pre- 
sented to your consideration, to show that an effort was made 
by certain members of the general assembly of this State to 
proceed regularly and in the legal manner to the election of a 
United States senator, for the term of six years, to succeed 
the Hon. George E. Spencer, whose term expires March 3d* 
proximo. 

Several persons were favorably mentioned as candidates 
for this high office, aside from the very distinguished gentle- 
men who are at present contesting for the position before 
your honorable committee. 

It is claimed that there was no legally organized legislature 
at the time the certificates of these gentlemen bear date. 

It is claimed that Tuesday, the 11th of February, inst., be- 
ing the second Tuesday after the organization of the general 
assembly of Alabama, was the day indicated by the law of 
congress of 1886, for the election of a United States senator. 
An election for United States senator tn that day was pre- 
vented by the friends of Mr. Spencer, in the wholly unau- 
thorized and unwarranted arrest of a member of the legisla- 
ture while presenting or attempting to present a resolution 
for this purpose. 

The following extracts from the published proceedings of 
the legislature, are presented in evidence of the foregoing, 
and to sustain the positions assumed. 
I have the honor to be 

Your obedient servant, 

William H. Hunter, 

Member of the Alabama legislature from Lowndes county. 

MEASURES OE COMPROMISE PROPOSED BY ATTORNEY GENERAL- 
GEORGE H. WILLIAMS. 

Washington, D. C, December 11, 1871. 
To David P. Lewis, Montgomery, Alabama : 
Sir — Two organizations at Montgomery, Ala., claiming to 



CXXX1. 

be the general assembly of the State, have appealed to the 
President, and, with his approval, I submit as a plan of com- 
promising the difficulty, the following : 

First. Officers of each organization shall tender their 
resignations, to take effect upon the permanent organization 
of a house of representatives, a3 hereinafter provided. 

Second. On the — instant, the hall of the house in the 
capitol shall be vacant, at 12 o'clock of that day ; all the per- 
sons holding certificates of election as representatives shall 
assemble therein ; but the persons holding the certificates of 
secretary Ragland shall be the only representatives seated 
from Barbour county, and shall make, in the usual manner, 
the temporary organization. 

Third. Two tellers, one republican and one democrat, shall 
be appointed by the speaker, pro tem., who shall publicly, 
and in the presence of the house, count the votes cast for 
representatives in the county of Marengo, and for that pur- 
pose they shall take the returns of the precinct inspectors of 
said county, or incase they can not be procured, the evidence 
of said inspectors, so far as the same may be necessary, to 
ascertain the actual vote cast as aforesaid, and the persons 
found upon such count to have the highest number of votes 
for representatives shall be seated as such from said county ; 
but the persons now holding certificates of election as repre- 
sentatives from Marengo shall not vote upon or in said tem- 
porary organization. Nor shall any business, other than de- 
ciding the contest as to said county, be transacted during 
such organization. 

Fourth. When such contest is determined, the house shall 
make a permanent organization in the usual way. 

Fifth. On the said — instant, the senate chamber shall be 
vacant, and at 12 o'clock the persons holding certificates of 
election as senators shall assemble therein and organize, with 
the lieutenant governor presiding, with the person holding 
the certificate ot secretary Eagland in his seat as the only 
senator from Barbour county; and the votes for senator in 
Marengo county shall be counted in the same way and upon 
the same kind of evidence as is hereinbefore provided for the 
house contest as to said county, and upon such count the 
person found to have the highest number of votes for senator 
from said county shall be seated as such, but the person now 
holding the certificate of election to the seat from said county 
shall not vote upon any question while the contest against his- 
seat is pending. And then the contest, as to the district com- 
prising the counties of Butler and Conecuh, shall be decided 
in the same way and upon the same kind of evidence, and 



CXXX11. 

the person now holding the certificate of election as senator 
from said district shall not vote upon any question before he 
is declared elected upon a count of the votes of the said dis- 
trict as aforesaid ; nor shall the senate do any other business 
before these contests are settled. 

No person not holding a certificate of election shall take a 
seat in the body until his right thereto is affirmed, as above 
provided. All those claiming to be members and seated in 
either organization shall be allowed mileage and per diem 
compensation prior to the temporary organization as herein- 
before provided for. After which persons holding certificates 
of election from secretary Parker, for Barbour county, shall 
cease to draw pay, and those contesting the seats for Maren- 
go and the district of Butler and Conecuh, who are finally 
elected, shall be allowed per diem pay until said contests are 
respectively ended, and the officers and employees of each 
organization shall be paid the usual compensation. 

George H. Williams, 

Attorney General. 

PROCEEDINGS IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 

"On the morning of the 11th of February, 1873, and arrest of 
Mr. Hunter, of Lowndes county. 

There were exciting times in the house this morning. 
Without waiting to hear the journal read, Mr. McAfee, of 
Talladega, (known to the house by the euphonious epithet 
of Cock Robin,) moved an adjournment with a view to de- 
feating the contemplated attempt of the disaffected republi- 
cans to bring on the senatorial election. 

Mr. Hunter, of Lowndes, at once divining the intention of 
the mover, sprung to his feet and asked leave to make an ex- 
planation. He was proceeding to say that this was the day 
set apart for the election of a United States senator when 
the chair called him to order. 

Mr. H. But I only ask to explain 

The Chair. The gentleman from Lowndes will take his 
<seat. 

Mr. H. Does the chair refuse me the right - — 

The Chair. The gentleman from Lowndes will take his 
seat. 

Mr. H. Then I appeal to the house from the decision of 
the chair. 

The Chair. The speaker has made no decision. The ser- 
geant-at-arms will arrest the gentleman from Lowndes and 
bring him before the bar of the house. 



CXXX111. 

Mr. H. Does the speaker deny me my constitutionar 
rights ? 

The Chair. The sergeant-at-arms will discharge his duty. 

Mr. H. I have constitutional rights upon this floor and. 
am determined to maintain them if possible. 

The Chair. Officer, do your duty, sir ! 

Mr. H. I come before the bar of the House. 

The officer then took charge of Mr. Hunter and conducted 
him down the aisle to the reporter's stand in front of the 
Speaker's stand, where he stood facing the Chair. 

The Chair. What have you to say, sir, in justification of 
your refusal to obey the mandate of the Speaker? 

Mr. H. I appealed from the decision of the Chair, and — 

The Chair. The gentleman will come to order. 

Mr. H. Do I understand the Speaker to refuse me the 
right to explain ? 

The Chair. The gentleman is out of order. 

Mr. Boyd, interrupting, said the gentleman at the bar was 
no longer subject to the rulings of the Speaker. He had been 
arraigned at the bar of the House, and the House must now 
dispose of his case. 

By this time the confusion had increased and the excite- 
ment had become fevered to a degree that was decidedly in- 
teresting. Motions flowed in thick and fast upon the House; 
fir sty to allow the gentleman to explain; second, to excuse him; 
third, to send him back to his seat without further action; 
and fourth, to postpone his case a day or two in order to al- 
low him time to prepare his defense. These motions were 
merely dilatory, with one exception, perhaps, introduced to 
allow Radical members to speak against time. The rule for 
which Mr. Hunter was arraigned for breaking was Rule 
No. 7: 

**'Tf the Speaker calls to order the member shall immedi- 
ately sit down unless permitted to explain, and the House shall, 
if appealed to, decide without debate." 

The argument in behalf of Hunter was, first, that he was 
compelled to obey the mandate of the Speaker subject to the 
condition of a refusal, not by the Speaker, but by the House, to 
hear and determine his appeal ; second, that the condition 
not having been complied with by the Speaker, it relieved 
Hunter of his obligation to render that obedience which would 
have otherwise been due; and third, that the Speaker can only 
order an arrest after the House shall have convicted the 
offending member of contempt ; fourth, that the law of con- 
gress requiring on that day the legislature of the State to 
proceed to elect a United States Senator, there could be no 



CXXX1V. 

violation of any rule of the House in calling attention to the 
law of congress. 

COPY OF RESOLUTION 

In the hands of Mr. Hunter, the Member from Lowndes, and 
which he desired read and acted upon when arrested by order 
of Speaker Parsons : 

Resolved, That pursuant and in obedience to the require- 
ments of an act of the Congress of the United States, entitled 
"An act to regulate the times and manner of holding elections 
for Senators in Congress, approved July 25th, 1866, this 
House proceed to-day, the same being the second Tuesday 
after the meeting and organization of the General Assembly 
of this State, to elect a Senator in Congress in place of the 
Hon. George E. Spencer, whose term of office expires on the 
fourth day of March, 1873. 

REPLY OF MR. HUNTER, MEMBER FROM LOWNDES. 

HoubE of Eepresentatiyes, Thursday, Feb. 13. 

The House met pursuant to adjournment. 

Prayer by Rev. Mr. Kinzer. 

The journal of yesterday was read and approved. 

Mr. Howell moved a suspension of the rules in order that 
the House bill to authorize the negotiation of a loan by the 
Governor might be taken up for concurrence in the Senate 
amendment thereto. 

Mr. Hunter asked the gentleman from Cleburne to be kind 
enough to withdraw his motion in order that he might be per- 
mitted to submit the explanation required at his hands by the 
former action of the House. 

Mr. Howell withdrew his motion with the understanding 
that he should be allowed to renew it. 

Mr. Hunter then submitted a written explanation in words 
and figures as follows, to-wit : 

To the House of Representatives of the General Assembly of Ala- 
bama and the Speaker of the House : 

In obedience to a resolution passed by this honorable body 
on the 1 1 th day of this month, directing the undersigned to 
make a statement in writing explaining my conduct in this 
House on the morning of the 11th day of February, 1873, 
which led to my arrest by order of the Speaker, I have the 
honor to submit the following : 

The undersigned, a member of the House from the 
county of Lowndes, respectfully states that on yester- 



cxxxv. 



day morning he had reason to believe that some mem- 
bers of the House were determined, if in their pow- 
er, to prevent any and every member of the House 
from voting on the question for a United States Sena- 
tor from the State of Alabama as the successor of the Hon. 
George E. Spencer, whose term will expire on the 4th day of 
March next ; that when he entered the House on yesterday 
morning, he had, and still has, the clear conviction, that it 
was the duty of the House, imposed by the supreme law of 
the land, to-wit : the act of Congress of July 25th, 1866, "to 
regulate the times and manner of holding elections for Sena- 
tors in Congress ;" to proceed on yesterday to vote for a suc- 
cessor to the said Spencer ; that under the aforesaid belief 
and conviction he entered the House on yesterday with the 
determination to offer for the adoption of the House, a reso- 
lution then iu his possession, in the following words and 
figures : 

Resolved, That pursuant and in obedience to the require- 
ments of an act of the Congress of the United States, entitled 
"an act to regulate the time and manner of holding elections 
for Senators in Congress, approved July 25th, 1866," this 
House proceed to-day, the same being the second Tuesday 
after the meeting and organization of the General Assembly 
of this State, to elect a Senator in Congress, in place of the 
Hon. George E. Spencer, whose term of office expires on the 
4th day of March, 1873. 

The undersigned further states that the journal of the pro- 
ceedings of the House on the preceding day was not read on 
yesterday morning ; that the roll was called and without any 
other business being done, a member from Talladega (Mr. 
McAfee) moved to adjourn until the succeeding day ; that un- 
der the belief that such adjournment would be an abandon- 
ment by the House of a plain duty, imposed by the supreme 
law of the land, and a deprivation of each member of the 
House, who desired to vote for a United States Senator on 
yesterday of his plain right to do so, and being determined to 
do all in his power to present the foregoing resolution for the 
consideration of the House, the undersigned addressed the 
Speaker of the House (who is also a member from Talladega 
county) and was recognized by him, and was proceeding to state 
a point of order he desired to raise against said motion to ad- 
journ. The point of order he thus desired to raise was, that 
as the supreme law of the land (said act of congress) imposed 
upon the House the duty of voting for a United States Sena- 
tor on yesterday, no rule of the House or other State author- 



CXXXV1. 

ity could overrule this supreme law or constitute a sufficient 
excuse for avoiding this duty ; that the motion to adjourn 
was, in effect, a motion to avoid indirectly a compliance with 
the supreme law, and was therefore out of order under that 
supreme law. The Speaker pronounced the undersigned out 
of order, and the undersigned appealed to the House from said 
ruling of the Speaker ; the Speaker did not entertain said ap- 
peal or give the House any opportunity to express its sense 
or judgment on the appeal, or allow the undersigned an op- 
portunity to explain his point of order or his motion or rea- 
sons, but, without taking the sense of the House, or obtaining 
any authority from the House, caused the undersigned to be 
arrested and brought before the bar of the House. In this 
mode, the undersignftd was deprived of his right to explain, 
of his right to state his point of order, of his liberty as a citi- 
zen and member, and the House itself of its right to allow ex- 
planation, its right to determine the point of order, and its right 
to determine the appeal. The undersigned, in his entire con- 
duct on yesterday, had no intention or idea of contempt of the 
house or its speaker, and is guilty of no such contempt, un- 
less the honest belief that the house and each of its members 
are bound to obey the supreme lav/ of the land which they are 
sworn to support and defend, coupled with an honest effort to 
induce them to do so, amounts to such. But the undersigned 
having as he hopes, fully excused himself for the supposed 
contempt, begs now, further to say that while he is willing to 
believe that the speaker did not from any personal motive, 
abridge the right of the undersigned, yec in view of his own 
character and rights, he is bound to protest against the action, 
of the speaker in causing him to be arrested and placed in 
custody as was done on yesterday. 

He is advised and fully believes that neither the rules of 
the House nor the usage of parliamentary bodies, nor any 
power inherent in the speaker's office, gives that officer the 
right to order any member into custody for words spoken in 
debate, nor for any violation of the rules of orders as the 
speaker may interpret them. 

The right of the speaker to call a member to order, does 
not carry with it the right to punish if the member disobeys. 
The House alone has the power to imprison or expel, or repri- 
mand a member, and in carrying out the order of the House 
in inflicting such punishment, the speaker is the mere mouth- 
piece and servant of the House, as in all other of its acts and 
doings. In this case the speaker did not ask the House what 
course it would take, or wait for the action of the House in 
the premises, but assumed the authority as the presiding offi- 



cxxxvn. 

cer to put the undersigned protestant into custody and order 
him brought before the bar of the House as a criminal, and 
in so doing the speaker was guilty of a gross and dangerous 
violation of the authority vested in him, at once taking away 
the exclusive and constitutional rights of the House, and of 
the member to a trial and adjudication by his peers and ac- 
cording to the prescribed rules. The constitution provides 
"that each house may determine the rules of its own pro- 
ceedings, punish members for disorderly conduct, and with 
the consent of two- thirds of the house expel a member, and 
shall have all other powers necessary for a branch of the leg- 
islature of a free and independent State." It is evident from 
this clause of the constitution that the power to punish for 
disorderly conduct and to prescribe rules of proceeding rests 
with the house alone ; it is a power which has never in this, 
or any other State, been delegated to the presiding officers 
and which cannot be delegated. By the exercise of such a 
power the speaker of the house at his option can destroy the 
freedom of debate, and instead of being the servant may be- 
come the master of the house ; and the undersigned confident- 
ly asserts that no instance can be cited from British or Amer- 
ican parliamentary history where the presiding officer of a 
deliberative assembly ever before put a member into custody 
or claimed a right so to do, because the member failed or re- 
fused to obey his call to order. It is not in the power of the 
speaker to punish for disorderly conduct, even in the lobby or 
gallery, but only to repress it for the time being with the aid 
of the sergeant-at-arms. 

The undersigned, therefore, enters this his solemn protest, 
for by his confinement on yesterday at the bar of the house, 
he suffered wrongs and indignity in his person and character 
by an order without authority of law, and destructive of the 
freedom and independence of the house. While he freely 
admits his own error in violating one of the rules of the house, 
and repeats his apology for the apparent but not willful breach 
of order, yet he asks that his constitutional right to protest 
against the action of the speaker on yesterday, as injurious 
to himself and the public, be respected, and that this his pro- 
test and apology may be spread on the journal of this house. 

W. H. Hunter, 

Member from Lowndes. 

Montgomery, Feb. 12, 1873. 

ARREST OF STROBACH, SHERIFF, AND KNOX, SOLICITOR, OF MONT- 
GOMERY COUNTY. 

Mr. HuLter stated that Paul Strobach, sheriff, and E. H r 



CXXXV111. 

Knox, solicitor, for Montgomery county, were before the bar 
of the House, in obedience to a mandate of the House made 
on yesterday, and moved to suspend the regular order of bus- 
iness for the purpose of considering the cases of said gentle- 
men. Agreed to. 

The clerk then read the following warrant : 

State of Alabama, Hall of House of Representatives ) 
of the General Assembly of Alabama, f 
To S. D. Oliver, Sergeant- at-arms 

of said House of Representatives : 

It having been made to appear to this House that Paul 
Strobach, as sheriff of Montgomery county, Ala., has this day 
and during the session of this House, served a summons on 
one member of this house, which said summons purports on 
its face to have been issued by Robert Knox, as solicitor, etc., 
by which said member is required to appear before the grand 
jury of Montgomery county, at the December term, A.D. 1872, 
of the circuit court, on the 12th day of February, and from 
day to day thereof until duly discharged, to give evidence 
before said grand jury in certain matters pending before them, 
which summons bears date the 11th day of February, 1873, 
and the said House of Representatives having duly considered 
the said foregoing facts, it was therefore 

Resolved, That the sergeant-at-arms be and he is hereby 
directed and ordered to arrest and bring to the bar of this 
house the said Robert Knox and the said Paul Strobach, and 
that the proper warrant therefor be issued. 

These are, therefore, to command you, the said S. D. Oliver, 
as sergeant-at-arms of the House of Representatives of the 
General Assembly of Alabama, forthwith to arrest the said 
Robert Knox and the said Paul Strobach, and bring them to 
the bar of the House. 

Herein fail not, and have you then and there this warrant 
with your endorsement thereon showing how you have exe- 
cuted the same. 

Lewis E. Parsons, Speaker 
of House Rep. of Gen. Assembly of Ala. 

Witness : Robert Barber, clerk of House of Representa- 
tives of the General Assembly of Alabama, this the 12th day 
of February, A. D, 1873. 

With the following endorsement thereon : 

Executed the within warrant by arrest and bringing Paul 
Strobach, sheriff, and R. H. Knox, solicitor, of Montgomery 
county, before the bar of the House of Representatives, Feb- 
ruary 13, 1873. Samuel D. Oliver, Sergeant-at-arms. 



CXXX1X. 

Mr. Clark, of Perry, then offered the following resolution : 
Resolved^ That R. H. Knox and Paul Strobach, now under 
arrest by order of this house, be each permitted to address 
this house for ten minutes, in explanation of their conduct in 
serving or causing to be served, civil process on the speaker 
and other members of this house in violation of section eleven 
of article four of the constitution of Alabama. 

Mr. Anderson moved to amend the resolution by allowing 
Messrs. Knox and Strobach until 10 o'clock to morrow, and 
that they be directed to explain in writing. Agreed to. 

REPLY OF R. H. KNOX, ESQ., SOLICITOR OF MONTGOMERY COUNTY. 

Mr. Speaker and Gentlemen of the House of Representatives : 

I am here in obedience to your summons, served upon me 
by the sergeant-at-arms, to answer for an alleged breach of 
the privileges of this honorable body. 

This breach, as I gather it from the resolution which orders 
my arrest, consists in the service by the sheriff of Mont- 
gomery county on Lewis E. Parsons, a member of this body, 
and during the sessions of this house, of a summons issued 
by the authority of a grand jury empanneled in the circuit 
court for the county of Montgomery, and bearing my name 
with the addition of the title of my office, namely, solicitor 
for Montgomery county. 

It is not claimed in the resolution that the service of thi3 
subpoena was directed by me to be made upon the said Lewis 
E. Parsons while he was upon the floor of this house, or 
during its session, or while going to attend any of its sessions, 
or that I gave any directions whatever in relation to its 
service, or that I had any other connection with it besides the 
fact that it bore upon its face my name with the designation 
of my office, nor unless this honorable house takes legislative 
notice of the authenticity of my handwriting, does it appear 
that the signature is in my own proper hand. 

I suggest these things to show that this honorable body, 
when it passed the resolution by virtue of which I now ap- 
pear here, did not have before it any fact showing or tending 
to show that the act of the sheriff, if it were a breach of the 
privileges of this house, was participated in or in any manner 
sanctioned by me. I do not suggest them by way of evasion, 
or by way of answer to the charge embraced in the resolution 
of this house, so far as it concerns me. 

I deny, Mr. Speaker and gentlemen of the house of repre- 
sentatives, the right of this honorable body thus to arraign 
me, and I deny that, intentionally or otherwise, I have com- 
mitted any contempt of the lawful authority of this honora- 



cxl. 

ble body or any breach of its legislative immunities. In aid 
of this denial, I invoke the constitution of the State of Ala- 
bama, which this honorable body, any more than the hum- 
blest citizen may and shall not invade. I invoke in aid of 
this my denial the instrument of authority under whose sanc- 
tion alone this honorable body can exist. Nor do I think I 
assume too much when I say that I will make it clear to this 
house that tne act which is complained of as an offense 
against its proper dignity is not lawfully entitled to be so con- 
sidered. Section 17 of article vi of the constitution of this 
State provides that "a solicitor shall be elected, in each 
county in this State, by the qualified electors of such county, 
who shall reside in the county for which he is elected and per- 
form such duties as may be required of him by lawT 

Certain acts passed by the general assembly of the State 
of Alabama, and which constitute a part of the body of its 
written law, provides for the organization and meeting of 
grand juries within and for the several counties of the State. 
I presume I need not refer to or designate these laws with 
particularity. 

Section 11 of article iv of the constitution of the State of 
Alabama declares, that "members of the general assembly 
shall, in all cases, except treason, felony, or breach of the 
peace, be privileged from arrest," etc. 

On the LOth day of February instant, in the circuit court 
for Montgomery county, the Hon. James Q. Smith presiding, 
I made a motion in these words : 

May it please your honor, certain facts have come to my 
knowledge within the last few days in relation to alleged 
offenses against some of the public laws, which make it my 
duty as prosecutor of the criminal pleas for this county to 
ask that your honor issue an order for a special grand jury 
to investigate these representations. 

I would not ask this for a case that depended merely upon 
public rumor, however extensive. The information conveyed 
to me is, however, from responsible sources, and appears to 
be well supported by circumstances of great apparent force. 

To fail in making this application would be to fail in the 
discharge of a plain duty, while at the same time I hope that 
persons who stand in suspicious connection with the facts to 
which I have alluded will be exonerated upon and after a free 
investigation by the grand jury. 

The presiding judge thereupon granted an order, by virtue 
of which a grand jury convened on the llth day of February 
instant. I did not then care to give any unnecessary pub- 
licity to the matters which were to be laid before this grand 



cxli. 

jury. These matters related to the hooor and the integrity 
and the virtue of the general assembly of the State of Ala- 
bama, nor except in vindication of my oath of office and of 
myself, which the resolution of this honorable body compels, 
would I now state that this grand jury was asked for by me, 
because representations which I believed to be well founded 
had been made to me, that in the matter of the election of a 
United States Senator by the present general assembly of 
this State, certain members of this honorable body were 
guilty of the high crime of bribery. This crime, Mr. 
Speaker and gentlemen of the general assembly, is declared 
by law to be a felony, and is within the exceptions of the 11th 
section of article iv of the constitution, privileging members 
of the general assembly from arrest. That it is a felony, I 
take it, will not be disputed in the face of section 3560 of the 
Revised Code, which declares : ' 

Section 3560. Bribery of Executive, Legislative or Executive 
Officer, — Any person who corruptly offers, promises, or gives 
to any executive, legislative, or judicial officer, after his elec- 
tion or appointment, either before or after he has been quali- 
fied,, any gift, gratuity, or thing of value, with intent to influ- 
ence his act, vote, opinion, decision or judgment, on any 
cause, matter, or proceeding, which may be then pending, or 
which may be by law brought before him in his official ca- 
pacity, must, on conviction, be imprisoned in .the penitentiary, 
or sentenced to hard labor for the county, for not less than 
two nor more than ten years. 

In pursuance of the duties cast upon me by the laws of the 
land and my oath of office, I attended before the grand jury 
as aforesaid convened, and in further pursuance of the same 
duty I caused to be issued and to be delivered to the sheriff, 
to be served, the subpoena for Lewis E. Parsons, named in 
the resolution of this honorable body. 

Its delivery was unaccompanied by any instructions to the 
sheriff as to the time, place, or manner of serving it. On 
reference to it, it will be found to have been dated the 11th 
day of February, 1872, and returnable on the following day, 
and the actual facts, as to the time of its issue and the time 
for its return conform to the statements of the process. I 
did not suppose that the discharge of a plain official duty, the 
non-performance of which would make me perjured, would 
be construed or could be tortured into an offense against the 
legislative department of the government or into a breach of 
the privileges of either of the houses of the general assembly 
of the State, and standing at the bar of this honorable body, 
and with all becoming deference and respect, I deny that for 



cxlii. 

the acts I have thus set forth, and which constitute the whole 
of my conduct in connection with this alleged contempt, I am 
liable to be here arraigned, challenged or punished, and 1 
deny these acts, or any of them, constitute in law or in fact, 
expressly or by implication, any breach of the privileges of 
this honorable body, or any contempt of its proper dignity or 
lawful authority, and I insist that the mere issuance and 
service of the process of subpoena to appear and testify be- 
fore a grand jury is not, and cannot be construed to be an 
arrest of the person, and is not within the true and legal 
meauing of the words "civil process," as those words are 
used in the llth section of the 4th article of the constitution. 
And now, Mr. Speaker and gentlemen of the house of rep- 
resentatives, standing upon the constitution and the laws of 
the State, and within the aegis of their protection,, I demand 
that I be released from the imprisonment and the restraint 
which you have imposed upon me, and that I be allowed to 
depart hence to attend to my official duties, which are most 
pressing. 

Mr. Anderson then presented the following resolution : 
Resolved, That the answer of Kobert Knox to the resolu- 
tion of this house, permitting him to show cause why he 
should not be proceeded against for a breach of privileges of 
this house, be and the same is hereby referred to a committee 
of seven, to be appointed by Hon. Lewis M. Stone as speaker 
pro tern., who shall consider said answer and report to this 
house as soon as practicable the course proper to be taken in 
the premises, and that the sergeant-at-arms may permit the 
prisoner to go at large on his word of honor that he will ap- 
pear when called for by order of the house. 

SOLICITOR E. H. KNOX'S APPLICATION FOR A SPECIAL GRAND JURY. . 

May it please your honor, certain facts have come to my 
knowledge within the last few days in relation to alleged 
offences against some of the public laws, which make it my 
duty as prosecutor of the criminal pleas for this county to 
ask that your honor issue an order for a special grand jury 
to investigate these representations. 

I would not ask this for a case that depended merely upon 
public rumor, however extensive. The information conveyed 
to me is, however, 1'rbm responsible sources, and appears to 
be well supported by circumstances of great apparent force. 

To fail in making this application, would be to fail in the 
discharge of a plain duty, while at the same time I hope that 
persons who stand in suspicious connection with the facts to 
which I have alluded, will be exonerated upon and after a 
free investigation of the grand jury. 



cxliii. 

February 10th, A. D. 1873. 

ORDER FOR SPECIAL GRAND JURY. 

No grand jury having been drawn and summoned for this 
term of the circuit court, and it appearing to the presiding 
judge that there is occasion for a grand jury at this term of 
the court, on motion of the solicitor, 

It is therefore ordered by said judge, that the sheriff of 
Montgomery county forthwith summons eighteen persons, 
qualified to serve as grand jurors, to be empanneled at this 
term as a grand jury for said county. 

February 11th, 1873. 
organization of the grand jury. 

The following named persons, being either freeholders or 
householders, and registered voters of the county, and pos- 
sessing the other qualifications required by law, were duly 
empanneled, charged, and sworn, according to law, as follows, 
to-wit : 

Benjamin Trimble was appointed foreman of the grand 
jury, and the statutory oath was administered to him by the 
clerk, in the presence of the court and the other grand jurors, 
and the statutory oath was also administered by the clerk to 
each of the following named persons, to-wit : G. B. Holmes, 
D. H. Lewis, Henry Jones, J. K. Warren, E. G. Carew, W, 
G. Wharton, A. H. Gillett, Jacob Griel, Holland Thompson, 
Harry Martin, James Foster, Samuel Phillips, John T. Mc- 
Donald, and J. K. Dillard, in the presence of the foreman 
and the court, to serve as a grand jury at the present term of 
this court. The said grand jury, being now complete, retired 
to the discharge of their duties. 

February 13th, 1873. 
solicitor's motion to discharge the grand jury. 

If the court please, a few days ago I submitted a motion 
to empannel a special grand jury, for the purpose of investi- 
gating certain charges affecting the character of members of 
the general assembly in connection with allegations of bribery 
and corruption. That grand jury was granted by your honor, 
but as the members of the general assembly whom I had 
summoned as witnesses in the matter have seen proper to 
shield themselves from the process of the court, behind their 
plea of their constitutional privilege from arrest and exemp- 
tion from civil process, the grand jury is poweiless in the 
premises, and therefore unnecessary, I therefore move the 
court to dismiss it. 



cxliv. 



DISCHARGE OF GRAND JURY. 



This day came the special grand jury, and in open court 
presented to the judge an indictment which was ordered to 
be filed. 

Robert H. Knox, Esq., solicitor, read to the court a sub- 
poena, and endorsement thereon, in the words and figures fol- 
lowing, to-wit : 

"The State of Alabama. 

"To any lawful officer of said State — Greeting : 
" You are hereby commanded to summon Lewis E. Par- 
sons, Alexander White, P. G. Clark, Ransom L. Johnson, 
January Maull, W. H. Hunter, Napoleon B. Abercrombie, to 
appear before the grand jury of Montgomery county, at the 
December term, A. D. 1872, of the circuit court, on the 12th 
day of February, and from day to day thereof until duly dis- 
charged, to give evidence before said grand jury, in certain 
matters pending before them. 

" This 11th day of February, 1873. 

" Robert H. Knox, 
" Solicitor for Montgomery county. 
"Received in office, February 12th, 1873. 

" Paul Strobach, Sheriff." 

Executed on P. G. Clark, R. L. Johnson, and January 
Maull, who claim their constitutional exemption as members 
of the general assembly. Executed on Lewis E. Parsons, 
who positively refuses to obey the mandate of the court, be- 
ing a member of the general assembly, and on his motion a 
resolution was adopted in the house of representatives order- 
ing the arrest of the solicitor and sheriff of Montgomery 
county. Not found as to Alex. White, W. H. Hunter, and 
Napoleon Abercrombie. February 12th, 1873. 

Paul Strobach, Sheriff. 

Filed February 13th, 1873, in open court. 

M. D. Brainard, Clerk. 

The solicitor then moved for the discharge of the grand 
jury on account of the persons subpoenaed, members of the 
legislature, refusing to obey the request to appear and testify, 
and on account of the arrest of himself and the sheriff by the 
sergeant-at-arms of the house of representatives for a con- 
tempt in performing the duties prescribed by law. 

The Judge then read the following notice and resolution, 
served on him by the sergeant-at-arms of the house on his 
way to the court-room, which is as follows : 

"Whereas, Paul Strobach, as sheriff of Montgomery county, 



cxlv. 

Alabama, has this clay a>n$ during the session of this house, 
sent a summons on Lewis E. Parsons, one of the members of 
this house, which said summons purports on its face to be 
issued by Robert Knox as solicitor, &c , by which said Par- 
sons is required to appear before the grand jury of Mont- 
gomery county, of the December term, A. D. 1872, of the 
circuit court, on the 12th day of February, and from day to 
day until duly discharged, to give evidence before said grand 
jury in certain matters pending before them, which summons 
bears date the lith day of February, 1873 — therefore, be it 
resolved : 

" 1st. That the said Parsons be and he is hereby declared 
not subject to the said process during the session of this house 
and for fifteen days before and fifteen days thereafter. 

" 2d. That a copy of this preamble and resolution be served 
upon the judge of the circuit court now in session in the county 
of Montgomery, and upon Robert Knox as solicitor and Paul 
Strobach as sheriff." 

This copy of notice was handed to me by sergeant-at-arms 
Oliver, February 18, 1873, at 9 J a. m., half hour before the 
hour of opening the court. 

J. Q. Smith, Judge. 

Hall of House of Representatifes ) 
of General Assembly of Alabama, f 
I certify that the within resolution is a true copy of the 
same, adopted by the house this day. 

Robert Barber, clerk. 

The Judge, then, addressing the graocl jury, said: 
Mr. Foreman and Gentlemen of the Grand Jury : 

You have been organized for the special purpose of enquir- 
ing into the alleged bribery and undue influence used on mem- 
bers of the house of representatives. To this end the subpoena 
read by the solicitor was issued, and with the result in the 
return made thereoa by the sheriff. 

The members claiming exemption from appearing before 
the jury, hold they are so exempt under article four, section 
eleven of the constitution, which reads as follows : 

" Members of the General Assembly shall in ail cases, ex- 
cept treason, felony or breach of the peace, be privileged from 
arrest, and they shall not be subject to any civil process dur- 
ing the session of the general assembly." 

I do not hold with the members claiming exemption that a 
subpoena to appear in court is such u civil process " as is 
covered by the section of the constitution just read. 
10 



cxlvL 

This holding, however, would at once bring about a conflict 
between the judicial and legislative department of the State 
government. 

This conflict can alone be settled by force. 

I am not prepared to resort to the force necessary, but will 
leave the matter to the public to judge whether, even if the 
privilege set up exists in law, such privilege ought to be 
waived in favor of the furtherance of the administration of 
justice. 

Your investigation into the special matter given you in 
charge, is of course rendered impossible in consequence of 
the exemption claimed, and you are therefore discharged, 

The State of Alabama, ) 
Montgomery county. J 

I hereby certify the foregoing is a true and correct copy 
of the proceedings in the organization of a special grand jury 
for Montgomery county, at the December term, A. D. 1872 s 
of the circuit court of said county, as the same appears of re- 
cord in said court. 

Witness my hand, this 1st day of March, A. D. 1873. 

Make: D. Brainaed, Clerk. 

By Gen. Morgan — 

Q. State whether in consequence of the proceedings taken 
in the house of representatives against you, as set forth in 
the foregoing paper, you were compelled to desist from a fur- 
ther prosecution of the alleged offenses, and ask for the dis- 
charge of the grand jury ? 

A. I was. 

Q. In the paper which your have presented, it appears 
that you stated to the court that facts had come to your 
knowledge within the last few days in relation to offenses 
against some of the public laws, made it your duty as prose- 
cutor of the criminal pleas of the county to ask a special 
grand jury to investigate these representations, to what offense 
did you refer ? 

A. Specially to corrupt influences of members of the leg- 
islature to secure the election of Hon. George E. Spencer to 
the Senate of the United States. 

Q. State whether the matters to which you referred were 
freely spoken of in the community ? 

A. They were. 

Q. Had you proceeded to examine other witnesses than 
members of the legislature? 

A. I had; and subpoenas were issued for others. 

Q. So far as you were permitted to examine witnesses 



cxlvii. 

state whether the evidence tended strongly to show corrupt 
influences had been used ? 

A. I so regarded it. 

Q. Were the offenses in reference to which you were ex- 
amining and in reference to which you had summoned mem- 
bers of the legislature, felonies ? 

A. They were. 

Q. Is it your opinion as a lawyer that the constitution of 
Alabama shelters a member of the legislature from attending 
as a witness before a grand jury in the county in which the 
capitol is situated, to prove the commission of a felony by 
any one ? 

A. I don't think the term "civil process" used in the con- 
stitution applies to subpoenas issued by grand juries. 

Eobt. H. Knox. 

FREDERICK WOLFFE 

Being sworn, savs : 

I knew Francis Widmer, and was one of his bondsmen as 
collector of internal revenue for the middle district of Ala- 
bama. He died in October, 1873. He left at his death per- 
sonal property of trilling value that could be found. I went 
on his bond in May, 1873. This was an additional bond with 
a penalty of about $25,000. After he had been arrested in 
September, 1873, I saw him and asked for some explanation 
of his arrest and state of his accounts. He said that his ac- 
counts were not short and that Beach was in arrears, he was 
afraid, $16,000, for which he was responsible; that his own ac- 
counts were short only about $3,000 or $4,000; that the 
amount he was short was due him by very influential parties, 
who would be able to pay as soon as he called upon them ; if 
the government would give him time to do so, he could make 
up his own accounts ; he refused at that time to give me the 
names of the parties who owed him; I offered him my assist- 
ance in attending to some business in Selma in Beach's mat- 
ters and went to Selma and garnisheed several parties who 
were bondsmen for Beach ; upon my return from Selma, or a 
short time thereafter, Widmer showed me three notes on par- 
ties who were owing him money ; he stated that with those 
three notes and the amounts for which parties in Selma were 
garnisheed, he could make good his accounts. 

Q. Describe the notes as to amounts and names of makers 
and dates ? 

A. To the best of my recollection, there was one note of 
J. J. Hiuds for $2,50u with a credit on the back of it for $900 ; 
there was another note made by Hinds and Spencer, either 



cxlviiL 

payable to Minds and endorsed by Spencer .or payable to 
Spencer and endorsed by Hinds, for $1,800, I think ; I am not 
certain of the amount. The third note I think was Strass- 
b inker's. 

Q. State what he said concerning the money loaned these 
parties ? 

A. He said they owed him for money loaned ; that occu- 
pying his position he was compelled to do more for them than 
other persons ; I saw the notes and have no doubts about 
their being genuine documents ; I know Hinds' signature and 
am satisfied the note was signed by him ; he said he had 
called upon the parties for the money and at that time he had 
no response but expected to get the money. 

Q. Shortly after this did not yellow fever break out in 
this city ? 

A. It broke out about the 22d of September and continued 
until the middle of November, and was a fearful epidemic. 
About the 7th of October Widmer took the yellow fever and 
died ; he had intimated he would turn these papers over to 
me, but I took yellow fever at the same time ; Widmer said 
Faber and another of his bondsmen had called upon him after 
Iris arrest for an explanation, and that he made one and also 
showed him the notes or told him he had them, I am not cer- 
tain which ; he said he was anxious to convince his bondmen 
that he was not a willful defaulter, and made the statements 
and exhibits of these papers for that purpose. The U. S. 
government is asserting demands against Widmer's securities 
for alleged defaults, and at that time had been arrested as a 
defaulter and was on bail, I being one of his bondsmen. Wid- 
mer was born in Switzerland in the same country with myself. 
He was an honest, liberal, confiding man, easily influenced by 
his friends. 

F. Wolffe. 

JOSEPH GOETTER 

Being sworn, states on oath that the annexed copy of an 
examination taken before James F. Dresser, contains a full 
and correct statement of what he knows in respect to the mat- 
ters therein spoken of. 

Jos. Goetter. 

" Joseph Goetter called and sworn for the U. S. 

I reside in Montgomery, Ala.; sustain toward the late Mr. 
Widmer, as collector of internal revenue, the relation of bonds- 
man ; Mr. Widmer is dead ; Mr. Fritz (the defendant) came at 
the request of myself and Mr. Faber, to see Mr. Faber and 
myself at the office of Munter & Faber ; Mr. Fritz there stated 



cxlix. 

the last conversation between himself and Mr. Widmer, in 
which he stated Mr. Widmer placed in his hands certainnotes 
which Mr. Widmer had taken for his security, naming them 
as Mr. Strassbnryer for $2,000, Senator Spencer for $2,500, 
Senator Hinds $2,00J ; I think Mr. Fritz named Mr. Warner 
and Mr. Buckley, but am not sure ; he also stated that Mr. 
Widmer said that he held enough paper on high parties to se- 
cure his bondsmen against any charges that Mr. Lotz could 
bring ; I never saw those papers ; Mr. Fritz stated further 
that Mr. Widmer said when he was alive that this money was 
taken from public funds ; Mr. Fritz has stated to me several 
times that he would give up these notes as he proposed to 
keep them to clear up Widmer's name. 

Cross-examination — 

Mr. Fritz stated that this money was spent for political 
uses ; that Mr. Widmer so stated to him ; Mr. Fritz, to the 
best of my belief, said that this money was government money; 
the money referred to as loaned to parties named and others 
was told to me by Fritz to be government money ; we claimed 
those papers as belonging to the administrator, Mr. Hatchett; 
after the statement made to me that the money was govern- 
ment property, we claimed the notes of Fritz for the adminis- 
trator of Mr. Widmer. 

Re-direct. 

Mr. Widmer's means outside his position (as collector) from 
my knowledge of him were not much; he had scarcely any- 
thing of his own ; he was carrying on a little groggery estab- 
lishment— -think the business was closed befoie his appoint- 
ment as collector ; he told me he had made nothing in the 
business. 

E. R. MITCHELL 

Being sworn, says : 

By Gen. Morgan — 

Q. Look at the accounts (Exhibits "H") which are shown 
you and state whether during the period covered by these 
accounts you were cashier of the. First National Bank of 
Montgomery ? 

A. I was. 

Q. How lon£ before this had you been cashier. (From 
Nov. 1872 to Feb. 8, 1873.) 

A. From the time of the organization of the bank in 1871, 
I continued to be cashier until about March 1873. 

Q. State whether Geo. E. Spencer had any account with 
that bank before Nov. ly, 18.72? 

A. Not to my knowledge or recollection. 



el. 

Q. State whether J. J. Hinds had any account with that 
bank prior to Nov. 19, 1872? 

A. Not to my recollection. 

Q. State whether D. C. Whiting had any account with 
that bank prior to Oct. 26, 1872? 

A. Not that I recollect. 

Q. Were either Spencer or Hinds engaged in any com- 
mercial business in the city of Montgomery, between Nov. 
19, 1872 and Feb. 1873? 

A. Not that I know of or ever heard of. 

Q. State whether Hinds knew of the state of Spencer's 
account, both as to deposits and checks ? 

A. He knew as to the condition of Spencer's accounts as 
shown by the books from time to time as well as Spencer did. 

Q. Why did you permit Hinds to become acquainted with 
the condition of Spencer's account. 

A. Because I regarded their interests as identical ; they 
came in together and made their first deposits and opened 
their accounts at the same time, and frequently conversed 
with each other in my presence as to the condition of their 
accounts. 

Q. Do you know, from information received from Spen- 
cer, Hinds or Whiting, that any of the money used was in 
the interest of Spencer's election ? 

A. To my knowledge, I do not know ; as a bank officer I 
avoided knowing what they did with their money. 

Q, If Hinds at any time made a request of you to ad- 
vance money for him, state when it was, the amount he 
wanted and all the circumstances attending the request, and 
state what was done by you and by Hinds to carry his wishes 
into effect? 

A. Some time about the middle of January, 1873, Hinds 
stated to me that he would need a thousand or more dollars, 
could not tell exactly when he would need it, it might be the 
next day or during the week, but when he did want it he 
must have it, and as he did not have that amount of money 
on deposit asked if the bank would advance him what he 
needed, to the extent of $1,000 ; I replied the bank could not 
advance him any money, but that he might prepare himself 
by drawing drafts and the bank would collect and place to 
his credit when paid; and if he needed money in the mean- 
time, and was compelled to have it as he said, that I would 
assist him in getting tbe money until the drafts were paid. 
To this arrangement he consented and drew two drafts for 
$1,000 each upon parties in Washington or New York, I do 
not know but am inclined to think they were in Washington, 



cli. 

and requested me, in my individual name, to forward the 
drafts for collection, as he did not wish the record of the 
drafts to be placed upon the bank books so as to let any one 
know where he got his money from. In due course of mail I 
received advices that one of the drafts was paid, and after 
waiting two or three days, not hearing from the other draft 
and knowing if it was not paid that I would have received a 
notice of protest, I, therefore, concluded that both drafts 
were paid and so entered them to Hind's credit upon the 
books of the bank, and he checked the same out as he re- 
quired it. Sometime after I left the bank I was informed 
that the draft which I supposed had been paid was not paid, 
and no trace could be found of where the draft was ; I then, 
by correspondence with Hinds, while he was at Washington, 
obtained a duplicate draft and the bank collected the same. 
When Hinds gave me these drafts he, at my request, sent 
telegrams to the parties notifying them of his having drawn 
upon them, and to see that they were promptly paid. These 
telegrams he sent up the railroad by hand to some point 
upon the road that was in telegraphic communication, in 
place of having them go through the Montgomery office. 
He remarked to me at the time that his object was to prevent 
any person obtaining any knowledge of the draft. 

Q. State whether Spencer and Hinds drew their balances 
on the 4th of Dec, whether they came together and if they 
spoke of leaving the city? 

A. Sometime in the early part of December, from the 
bank account it appears it was the 4th of December, they 
both came into the bank and requested to know their bal- 
ances, and drew the same as they were going to leave on that 
evening or the next day. 

Q. What was the real balance Spencer drew on that day ? 

A. It was $10,785.00, paid bv the bank as follows: One 
check on New York for $5,085.00, another for $3,385.00 on 
New York, another for $2,250.00 on Mobile, and $115.00 in 
currency. All the drafts were drawn in his own favor. The 
next day, owing to an error in stating the balance, he re- 
turned $650, which had been overpaid him the day previous. 

Q. State any conversation you have heard between Hinds 
and Spencer, or between Hinds and any other persons, in 
reference to the bestowal of offices by Spencer or through 
his influence, to secure his election to the senate, or any other 
arrangements which were made by the managers for Spencer 
to secure that result, and state when the conversations oc- 
curred? 

A. I have heard no conversation between Hinds and 



clii. 

Spencer, but Hinds told me that lie had everything arranged, 
and that they would win if they succeeded in fixing one thing 
that night, and that was to get a democratic senator to be 
absent at home at the time the vote was to be taken ; that 
they had fixed more democratic senators than the democrats 
could possibly take away of republican senators. This was 
in reference to the Martin- Miller contest. In another con- 
versation in Hinds' room, when five or six persons were 
present, the suggestion of getting a democratic senator to be 
absent was made, and Hinds remarked "we have fixed him." 
Several persons told me Spencer had promised them federal 
offices, but I can't now recollect the persons or offices 
that were promised, but there were at least five or six or 
more persons who stated that Spencer had promised them 
office for their influence and services in his behalf. Sometime 
after Mr. Spencer's election, abouta month, Mr. Rob't Barber 
told me he had done a heap of work for Spencer, had worked 
night and day and that Spencer had promised him to have him 
appointed U. S. Marshal as soon as Gen. Healey's term expired 
which was either to be that fall or the next spring; that he, 
had received several letters from Spencer, in which Spencer 
stated that there was no doubt about his getting the office 
and to rest easy. During the next year, Barber, not having 
received the appointment, and from certain actions of Spencer 
which led him to believe that he would not fulfill his promises 
and was acting treacherously, he became angry with Spencer 
and wrote him some very harsh letters, in which, he stated to 
me, he told Spencer he knew better than to go back on him 
entirely. In reply to these letters Spencer sent him an ap- 
pointment to an office in the Mobile custom house, by which 
he was to draw his pay as an officer of the custom house and 
still remain at Montgomery, and render no service. Spencer 
stated that this pay would help him to provide for his family 
until something better should turn up. Barber then re- 
marked to me that Spencer expected to keep him quiet by 
throwing this little crumb of an office into his hands ; but he 
would find himself mistaken in the man he was dealing with. 
I saw a letter from Goodloe, the collector of the port of Mo- 
bile, after Barber said he had written Spencer, in which he 
enclosed the form of an application upon which he was to 
make his application for the appointment, with the usual 
stipulations, which application was to appear as an original 
from Barber without any suggestion from Goodloe, and when 
made out, sent to him, and he would arrange the balance ; 
that there was no necessity for him (Barber) to come to Mo- 



cliii. 

bile; but that when the month expired he would send hint 
the blanks for him to sign and he would send him his pay. 

When Reynolds received the appointment of collector of 
the port of Mobile, it was stated to me by several of Spencer's 
friends, that he would never be confirmed if it was in the 
power of Spencer to prevent it, as lie had promised and 
pledged Goodloe to get him that place as a reward for his 
services in his behalf in the legislature. 

Some time during the year 1874, Patrick Robinson told me 
that Wilson, P. M., was indebted to him for the appointment, 
as Spencer was greatly indebted to him for the work done in 
his behalf as senator, and in acknowledgment of the same 
Spencer promised and agreed to have any one appointed 
postmaster at Montgomery that Robinson wished, and as 
Wilson had been clerking for him, he told Spencer to make 
Wilson postmaster ; that Spencer and his friends had used 
his rooms for their meetings with the negro members, and 
that he had furnished lights and whisky for the crowd. 

Whiting also told me he had got an appointment in the 
custom house at Mobile in consideration of his services for 
Spencer. Ben DeLemos, of Lowndes county, also told me 
that Spencer had also procured his appointment in the cus- 
tom house. I knew he had done a great deal of work for 
Spencer's election. There are others who secured appoint- 
ments from Spencer, who had worked for Spencer's election, 
that I do not now remember. 

E. R. Mitchell. 

In accordance with the request of the committee made at 
the close of my examination I have examined my letter book, 
and from the information it contains, I state further that the 
sum of $1,990, which was placed to the credit of J. J. Hinds' 
account in the First National Bank of Montgomery, on the 
27th day of January, 1873, was the proceeds of the two drafts 
or bills mentioned in my testimony as being drawn on parties 
in New York or Washington on January 22, 18/3. One of 
these drafts was drawn on George E. Spencer and the other 
on John H. Semmes, as I read the name on my letter book. 
The draft on Spencer was first paid, and both were payable 
at Washington, D. C. 

E. R. Mitchell. 

JACKSON MORGAN, (COL'd) 

Being sworn, says: 

I knew Mr. Widrner, late revenue collector of the middle 
district of this State. I was a messenger in the office. I had 
his personal effects in charge. I knew more about his per- 



cliv. 

«onal matters than any man in town. I was with him at his 
death. I had charge of his things. I took his keys out of 
his pocket when he died. Mr. Farden had the outside key 
to his safe. The key to the inside, or private drawer in which 
Mr. Widmer kept his private papers, was in his pantaloon's 
pocket and was taken out by me and after his death, in the 
presence of Mr. Olcott and Mr. Crenshaw, I turned the key 
to this drawer over to Mr. Fritz as soon as I had shrouded 
Mr. Widmer. 

By General Morgan : 

Q. State what you know of any dealings between Mr. 
Spencer or Mr. Hinds with Mr. Widmer ? 

A. During Mr. Widmer's' sickness I stayed with him. He 
talked with me a great deal and confided in me as much as 
in any one. I nursed him and stayed with him until he died. 
One morning after he was arrested, he was confined in his 
room instead of being taken to jail. While there I had a 
conversation with him. The first word he said to me, he 
hated to tell me, was " Well, Morgan, I am arrested ; if they 
would untie my hands and let me write, I have more than 
enough to pay my default." I remember distinctly his saying 
" Spencer owes me more than enough to pay my default." 
He said he had a note on Mr. Hinds, the amount I disremem- 
ber, and also a note on Warner for either five hundred or five 
thousand dollars. My best recollection is five thousand. He 
said he had a note on Spencer, I don't remember the amount. 
I have seen these notes and also a note on Strassberger upon 
which there was a payment. After Widmer's arrest he went 
to his safe and took some papers out of a lower drawer and 
put them in his private drawer. I know the notes were in 
his drawer when he died. Mr. Widmer was not an extrava- 
gant man — the most of the money he spent was in treating 
his friends after supper. 

By Mr. Price : 

Q. How long after Mr. Widmer's arrest before he was 
taken sick with the fever with which he died? 

A. Either ten or eleven days. 

By General Morgan : 

Q. Did you hear Mr. Widmer say he had written to Mr. 
Spencer ? 

A. I did, and I know he wrote to Mr. Spencer at least 
three times, for I mailed the letters, and know he got no an- 
swer from Spencer. He said he did not know what to think 
of Mr. Spencer. 

Jackson Morgan. 



civ. 

HENRY E. FABER, 

Being sworn, says : * 

I knew Francis Widmer. I was one of the sureties on his 
bond as collector of internal revenue for the middle district of 
Alabama, 

By Mr. Little : 

Q. Was he a defaulter ? 

A. He was so declared. 

Q. Did he assign any cause for his default ? 

A. He told me he had loaned money to Hind9 for Spencer, 
and that he had either Hinds' or Hinds and Spencer's, or 
Spencer's notes, as well as those of other persons. That the 
notes he held of these persons would more than cover his 
deficiency. 

Q. What became of those notes ? 

A. Mr. Widmer always told us he had them in his private 
box in bis safe. After his death, the box and contents disap- 
peared, and we could never get possession of it. 

Q. Did you ever have any conversation with Lewis Fritz 
about those notes or the private box ? 

A. I did, repeatedly. He told me on the cars, between 
Montgomery and Deatsville, while the yellow fever was pre- 
vailing in Montgomery, and shortly after Widmer's death, 
that the box was in his possession, and that notes of value 
were therein, and that he would surrender the box and con- 
tents, which would be sufficient to make good any deficiency 
of Widmer's and keep his bondsmen from being in any way 
troubled. He afterwards failed to comply with his promise 
and one of the bondsmen, during my absence, instituted suit 
against him before a U. S. commissioner, and he was bound 
over to appear to answer any action the grand jury might 
take. This is the present condition of the matter. 

Q. In the conversation, did he mention the Hinds and 
Spencer note ? 

A. He did. Widmer stated to the chief of the settlement 
bureau of the revenue department, who discovered a deficien- 
cy in his accounts of about $10,000 here and about $9,00u in 
Selma, that he (Widmer) had notes on Hinds, Spencer, 
Buckley and Strassburger, that would cover all of his alleged 
deficiencies. He also stated this money was furnished for 
party and political purposes to Hinds, Spencer and Buckley. 

Q. When was the deficiency definitely ascertained ? 

A. In the fall of 1873. * 

Q. Was there any political campaign that year ? 

A. There was not. 



«lvi. 



Q. When was the last political campaign previous to the 
ascertainment of this deficiency ? 

A, The campaign of 1872. 

Q. Did Hinds and Spencer take an interest in the cam- 
paign of 1872 ? 

A. They did. Spencer was re-elected to the U. S. senate. 

By Mr. Price— 

Q. Do you hold any office ? 

A. I am mayor of the city of Montgomery, and have been 
for three terms. 

Henry E. Fabek. 

C. J. CAMPBELL 

Being sworn, says: 

I am cashier of the First National Bank of Montgomery. 
The accounts of Geo. E. Spencer, J. J. Hinds, and D. C. 
Whiting, chairman, marked Exhibit " H, 1, 2," are true state- 
ments as shown by the books of the bank. 

Q. Have they ever had any accounts before or since that 
time with your bank ? 

A. Not that I know of. 

Q. Do you know of any commercial or other business en- 
gaged in by Hinds, Spencer or Whiting ? 

A. I do not. 

C. J. Camhbell. 

EXHIBIT H— I. 

Geo. E. Spencer, in account with First National Bank of Montgomery . 



Dr. 






Cb. 


1872. 
Nov. 20. 

" 23. 

" 25. 

" 26. 

" 27. 

" 28. 

" 30. 
Dec. 2. 

" 3. 

" 4. 


To check.... $ 200 00 
" " (2) 450 00 
« " 200 00 
" " 200 00 
" " 100 00 
" " 100 00 
" " 150 00 
" « 100 00 
" " 500 00 
" " (3) 11,435 00 


1872. 
Nov. 19. 

« 21. 
Dec. 2. 

" 5. 

" 5. 


By deposit.... $ 7,000 00 

800 00 

4,487 00 

650 00 

497. 50 


$ 13,435 00 




$13,435 On 


! 



D. C. Whiting, Chairman, in account with First National Bank of Montgomery? 



Dp, 








Ck. 


1872. 

Oct. 26. 

" 28. 

Nov. 2. 

Dec. 5. 


To check (2) $ 1,000 00 
" " 500 00 
" " (2) 993 75 
» " 1,000 00 


1872. 
Oct. 26. 
Dec. 5. 


By deposit. . 


..$ 2,493 75 
1,000 00 

$ 3,493 75 




$ 3.493 75 





CiYIl. 



EXHIBIT H— II. 
J. I. Hinds, in account with First National Bank of Montgomery. 




R. W. HEALY 

Being sworn, says : 

I came to Alabama in March, 1865; since that time I have 
been prominently and actively connected with the Republican 
party ; I was chairman of the republican State executive com- 
mittee from 1870 to 1872, and was succeeded by D. C. Whit- 
ing ; I have held the office of U. S. marshal for the southern 
and middle districts of Alabama for eight years, and have 
held that office continuously up to the present time, except 
during a short time it was held by J. J. Hinds, from April 1st 
to the 22d of that month of the present year. 

By Gen. Morgan — 

Q. Do you think you were acquainted with the opinions of 
the republican pai ty in this State in 1872 '? 

A. I think I was. 

Q. Do you believe Gen. Spencer at the time of his re-elec- 
tion was the choice of that party for U. S. Senator ? 

A. I don't think he was the choice of the best men of the 
party, but he may have been the choice of a majority of the 
party ; I don't think he would have been re-elected in 1872, 
but for certain circumstances. 

Q. Please to state fully t&e circumstances to which you 
refer? 

A. It was the desire of the leading men of the party, the 
ablest and best, to retain control of the legislative branch of 
the State government, which they firmly believed they had 
won by the election. The certificates of election were given 



clviii. 

to the democratic candidates for the legislature from Barbour 
and Marengo, both of which counties gave a republican ma- 
jority. This would have given the democrats control of both 
houses at the organization ; the republicans believing they 
would not get justice in the matter of a contest for the seats 
for those counties, determined to go into a separate organiza- 
tion, which they did. Gen. Spencer was not here at the or- 
ganization and was not one of the advisers. In that organi- 
zation there was a minority opposed to his election, but after 
his arrival it appeared to be understood among many of the 
republicans that he had gone into negotiations with the dem- 
ocrats with the view of their electing him to the senate on 
condition that he broke up the court house assembly and 
brought his friends to the capitol. This forced them into a 
unanimous support of himself, as they preferred the success 
of the party to the defeat of an individual to the senate. 

Q. Did you and other gentlemen in the lead of the minor- 
ity of which you speak, believe that Spencer was capable of 
colluding with the democrats in the manner you allude to, to 
secure his election ? 

A. Yes, sir, I think several believed it. It became a party 
necessity to elect him to save the organization at the court 
house and preserve it afterwards at the capitol, as the great 
desire of the leaders was to have the legislature in harmony 
with the executive. 

Q. Who were Spencer's most active personal friends in 
Montgomery at that time in procuring his election and after- 
wards providing for his retaining his seat? 

A. Jerome J. Hinds was very active, also D. C. Whiting, 
Robert Barber, and several members of the legislature,, 
amongst whom were P. G. Clarke, Gen. Dustan, J. 0. Good- 
loe, and some other members from north Alabama. 

Q. Did you at that time enjoy the confidence of the gen- 
tlemen you have named, notwithstanding you were an advo- 
cate of the court house assembly ? 

A. I did not. 

Q. Why not? 

A. I presume it was because I was believed not to be 
heartily supporting Mr. Spencer. 

Q. Were you apprised at the time by rumors among the 
knowing members of the legislature, or by any facts that come 
to your knowledge, of any promises of official patronage made 
by Spencer or his immediate friends, to cause men to adhere 
to him in procuring his election. If so, please state all you 
know on that subject ? 

A. I don't know personally of any such promises, but ru- 



clix 

mors were prevailing among the knowing men of the assem- 
bly that such promises were made promiscuously. 

Q. State whether the rumors of which you speak as pre- 
vailing at the time connected the names of certain individuals 
with certain offices to be afterwards conferred ? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. As far as you can, please state what individuals were 
thus rumored as having office promised who afterwards re- 
ceived appointments ? 

A. Two thus received appointment, but they are now as- 
sociated with me in the service and I prefer not to give their 
names. 

Q. Do you know of any understanding among the Repub- 
licans to prevent an election by the fusion legislature of a U. 
S. Senator? 

A. I know of nothing except by public rumor. 

Q. Do you know whether J. J. Moulton was here assist- 
ing in Spencer's election ? 

A. I think he was. 

Q. Was he taking an active part in that matter ? 

A. I so understood. 

Q. Where did J; J. Hinds live at the time of Spencer's 
election ? 

A. It was said, at Decatur. 

Q. Do you know of any business at or about the city of 
Montgomery he or Spencer had of mercantile or commercial 
character, which would require the use of ten or twelve thou- 
sand dollars ($10,000 or $12,000) between the 19th (^Novem- 
ber, 1872, and the 14th of February, 1873? 

A. I do not. 

Q. Did either of them have any business not connected 
with politics ? 

A. Not that I know of, except that Hinds was a mail con- 
tractor ; but if he had any contracts about here I do not know 
of them. 

Q. Did Mr. Hinds or Mr. Spencer have the reputation of 
being wealthy ? 

A. They did not. 

Q. Did you know Francis Widmer in Nov., 1872 ? 

A. I did ; he was collector of internal revenue for the sec- 
ond Alabama district. 

Q. What was his apparent condition as to property and 
wealth? 

A. He was not a man of property or wealth. 

Q. Please examine these letters (Exhibits E. and F., Spen- 
cer's letters to "My dear Barber, 5 ') and state whether there 



cix. 

was a deputy U. S. marshal acting under you at the time 
mentioned in these letters ? 

A. There was. 

Q. Did he have any authority from you to make arrests 
in Tallapoosa, Randolph and Cleburne counties ? 

A. He had authority to make arrests upon capiases issued 
by legal authority, and he had only such authority. 

Q. Did you demand the assistance of federal troops in 
the counties named to aid in the execution of any process 
that came to your hands? 

A. A large number of indictments for violations of the 
enforcement act were had at the November term, 1871. The 
capiases on those indictments were returnable to the May 
term, 1872. Anticipating difficulty in making arrests under 
them, I applied for military aid early in the year 1872, in 
January or February. In compliance with that application, 
a company of cavalry was ordered by the secretary of war to 
Opelika which I designated as the station. After its arrival, 
which was some time early in March, they used it pretty ac- 
tively in making arrests up to the commencement of the 
spring court, which was the 4th Monday in May. After that 
I do not recollect an instance in which they were used for 
the purposes required. 

Q. After the May term of the court in 1872, were you 
aware of any attempts to resist the process of the U. S. 
courts, by the people of the counties of Randolph, Cleburne 
and Tallapoosa, or of that part of the State ? 

A. I was not. 

Q. Did Gen. Spencer have any authority to control your 
deputies? 

A. He had not. If that (Spencer's letter to Barber, tell- 
ing him, " I wish Randolph, deputy U. S. marshal, would use 
the company at Opelika in making arrests in Tallapoosa, 
Randolph and Cleburne, as suggests,") was ever com- 
municated to Mr. Randolph, I have no knowledge of it. 

Q. Did you know anything of this proposition of Spencer 
as set forth in his letter of October 22, 1872? 

A. I have seen the letter and am aware of the proposi- 
tion for the first time to-day. 

Q. Are you acquainted with the handwriting of Geo. E. 
Spencer, and if so, do the letters marked Exhibits " E." and 
" F" bear his signature? 

A. I am. They bear his signature. 

Q. Was Squires or Perrin either deputy marshals under 
you at any time ? 

A. Mr. Squires never was. Perrin held a temporary ap- 
pointment in 1874. 



clxi. 

Q. Did Squires ever hold any office in the revenue de- 
parment? 

A. I thick he did. 

By Gen. Coon — 

Q. Do you know of troops ever having been used by your 
authority for any other purpose than the enforcement of the 
laws and the protection of voters in the State ? 

A. They were never otherwise used by my authority. 

Q. Is it your opinion that the proposition made by sena- 
tor Spencer in his letter of October 22, 1872, in reference to 
the illegitimate use of troops, would have been approved by 
the party generally in the State, had it been made known to 
them ? 

A. I don't believe they would have approved the measure 
except for the purpose only of keeping the peace and offer- 
ing protection to the people generally without regard to poli- 
tics. R. W. Healy. 

WADE A. M'BRYDE 

Being sworn, says : 

I knew Francis Widmer from the winter of 1865 up to the 
time of his death, which occurred Oct. 14, 1873. He had no 
visible property that I know of except his furniture. I had 
a conversation with him shortly before his death, at the foot 
of the steps going up into his room. He said he had been 
badly treated, and, to use his own language, " that my head 
has been cut off; but mine is not the last one that is going 
to come off. These damned thieves have got money from 
me, and at the proper time I will expose them all, from sena- 
tor down." Widmer was a republican. 

Wade A. McBryde. 

LOUIS FRITZ, JR., 

Being sworn, says : 

I knew Francis Widmer. I was in business with him. 
He went out of business in 1869, when he was appointed 
revenue collector. He had no property or money when he 
went out of business. I think he got his appointment 
through Mr. Buckley. He was an honest man and was con- 
sidered a good business man. 

Q. When he was in office, was he an extravagant man ? 

A. I can't say that he was. He was a generous, liberal 
man. He did not gamble, that I know of. I was very sel- 
dom with him after office hours. 

11 



clxii. 

Q. Do you know any transactions he had with Hinds or 
Spencer ? 

A. I do not. 

Q. Did you ever see any notes taken by him from Hinds 
or Spencer ? 
A. I did not. 

Q. Do you remember a conversation had with Mr. Hatch- 
ett when Judge Eice was present ? 

A. I do. They called on me and stated they wanted all 
notes and other evidences of indebtedness, and all other pa- 
pers I had belonging to Mr. Widmer. They asked me for 
Spencer's note. They also asked for notes of Warner, Buck- 
ley and Hinds. I told them I had none. I think they re- 
ferred to conversations I had with Messrs. Faber and Goet- 
ter, in which I said I had notes. I told them I had notes I 
would tell them of if they would not tell any living soul. 
They promised, and I told them I had notes on Strassburger, 
and nothing was said concerning any notes of Hinds or 
Spencer. At that interview their names were not mentioned. 

Q. Did you see Hinds here just about the time of Wid- 
mer's death ? 

A. It may have been a week or less, or more ; he was 
here and I saw him on the street, but I did not see him in my 
office or at Widmer's. 

Q. What did you do with Strassburger's notes ? 

A. I turned them over to the sheriff. 

Q. Where did you get these notes? 

A. He gave them to me before his death three or four 
days ; he gave me a package and told me not to part with it, 
not to open it, and not to let it go out of my hands ; I took 
the papers and locked them up in my trunk ; I took them out 
after his death and found two notes for $1,000 each ; I kept 
them until the sheriff called on me for them. 

Q. Did you give them to the sheriff before you saw 
Hinds here ? 

A. It was after ; it may have been three or four weeks 
afterwards. 

Q. Was there any interview in which Messrs. Faber or 
Goetter, or Wolffe, asked you concerning any notes of Hinds 
or Spencer ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you know before Widmer's death what the pack- 
age contained? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. What injunction of secrecy did Widmer impose ? 

A. None but what I have stated. 



clxiii. 

Q. Then why was it when you spoke to Goetter and Faber 
about it you made them promise they would never tell it to 
any human being. 

A. As they were given to me that way I did not care to 
have the matter, exposed as Mr. Strassburger was in business 
here. 

Q. Did you know the consideration of the notes ? 

A. I did not. 

Q. What exposure did you think would be involved of an 
improper character by the mere fact that a dead man's estate 
was found to possess two notes against a man for $1,000 
each? 

A. I thought it might injure him as a business man here. 

Q. Did you not know he would have to pay the notes to 
Widmer's estate if he owed them ? 

A. I did. 

Q. Were the notes on Strassburger & Co., or H. Strass- 
burger ? 

A. On H. Strassburger. 

Q. Was Strassburger not able to pay them at that time ? 

A. I don't know ; I should judge from appearances he 
was. 

Q. Did you consider it would be any injury to a man to 
pay a debt ? 

A. Of course not. 

Q. Did you not have some better and stronger reason for 
the solemn promise you exacted of Faber and Goetter not to 
tell a living soul of the notes ? 

A. I did not. 

Q. Did you not have some reason to believe the money 
obtained by those notes was public funds ? 

A. I did not , I told them only of the Strassburger notes. 

Q. Did you and Hinds not eat together while he was 
here? 

A. I never eat or drank with him in my life. 

Q. Did you, or your wife, get a letter from Hinds or 
Spencer about that time or afterwards ? 

A. I did not, nor did my wife. 

Q. Did you ever speak to Faber about a box containing 
notes belonging to Widmer ? 

A. I did not. 

Q. Did you have a key to one of the inner drawers or 
doors of Widmer's safe, or to some place where he kept his 
private papers? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Was the safe unlocked with a key ? 



clxiv. 

A. It was ; Farden had both keys to the safe ; I never, at 
the time of Widmer's death or afterwards, had any key to the 
safe. 

Q. Did not Jackson Morgan take the inside key from 
Widmer's pocket, that belonged to the safe, and give it to 
you? 

A. No, sir ; he gave me the keys to his desk and the fur- 
niture that belonged to me — the wardrobe and bureau 
drawers. 

Q. Did Widmer have any private papers in his bureau 
drawers ? 

A. Not that I know of. 

Q. When Widmer's safe was examined were any notes or 
evidences of debt found? 

A. I was not there when it was opened. 

Q. How long before Widmer's death before Hinds was 
here? 

A. I don't remember ; they were together in Widmer's 
office when I saw them ; this was before the yellow fever 
broke out. 

Q. Was that a severe epidemic ? 

A. It was, and was very fatal ; there were a number of 
deaths. 

Q. Did you do more than to speak to Hinds when he was 
here? 

A. I did not. I had no conversation with him. 

Q. Where was Hinds stopping when in Montgomery ? 

A. At the Madison House. 

Q. Where did he stop when he came that time ? 

A. I don't know. 

Q. Do you know of Mr. Widmer's lending any one large 
sums of money before his death ? 

A. I do not of my own knowledge. Widmer told me once, 
after an interview with Faber, that Faber had insulted him, 
and remarked that if he darkened his door again he would 
shoot him down like a dog ; that that was the thanks he got 
for favors shown that man. 

Q. How long after Widmer's death before you told Faber 
and Goetter of these notes ? 

A. It was the day after his burial. I telegraphed my 
wife of Widmer's death ; she was at Deatsville. Mr. Faber 
sent me word he was going up, and Mrs. Fritz wanted me to 
come up and unless I came she would come down. I went 
up, and as I came back the next day I told Mr. Faber to tell 
Mr. Goetter I intended to do all in my humble power to vin- 
dicate Widmer ; that I - had some papers in my possession. 



clxv. 

I was sent for as soon as I got to town by Messrs Faber and 
Goetter, at Faber's store. Goetter told me I had some papers 
and they wanted to know what I had. I told them I would 
tell them if they would tell no living soul what papers I had. 
They promised and I told them I had the notes of Strass- 
burger. They said they wanted an administrator and would 
have me appointed. I told them there was no use of an ad- 
ministrator, there was nothing to administer upon. We then 
separated. 

Q. At this time had you seen the notes ? 

A. I had just glanced at them as I came from the train. 
I didn't take in the amount. I did not know whether they 
were for five cents, or five thousand or fifty thousand dollars. 

Q. How did you know they were promissory notes ? 

A. I saw they commenced to read "I promise to pay 
Francis Widmer," and could see they were signed by Strass- 
burger. 

Q. If these were notes, what made you think there was 
no use to administer? 

A. I did not know what the amounts were. He had no 
real estate or other property, and I knew of nothing to ad- 
minister upon except the notes. 

Q. What did you expect to do with the notes ? 

A. 1 expected to hold them according to my instructions. 

Q. What were vour instructions? 

A. Not to allow them to go out of my hands until he 
called for them. 

Q. Did you intend to hold on to them ? 

A. I did until I delivered them to the sheriff on his de- 
mand. 

Q. You did not then hold them till Widmer called for 
them? 

A. Nor, sir, he died. 

Q. If you intended to hold them till Widmer called for 
them according to your instructions, after his death, you 
would have been likely to have held them until the resurrec- 
tion ? 

A. Possibly, sir. 

Q. Did you not intend to keep them and collect the money 
on them? 

A. Nor, sir. I intended to vindicate Widmer as far as 
laid in my humble power. 

Q. If that was your intention, why did you not turn the 
notes over to the securities? 

A. I thought them as good in my hands as theirs. 



clxvi. 

Q. Did not Mr. Hinds, when he came here, buy those 
notes from you ? 

A. He did not. 

Q. How long after Widmer's death before the sheriff de- 
manded the notes ? 

A. About three weeks. 

Q. Under what process ? 

A. A writ of seizure issued at the suit of W. T. Hatchett, 
administrator, I delivered the notes immediately the call 
was made. 

Q. Did not Haj;chett demand the notes before the writ of 
seizure issued ? 

A. They first requested all papers I had, afterwards they 
demanded the Spencer and Hinds notes — they may have said 
all other papers of indebtedness. 

Q. Why did you not deliver them when demanded ? 

A. I thought them as safe in my hands as the administra- 
tors. 

Q. Did you not conceal from them that you had the notes 
of Strassburger ? 

A. I did not? 

Q. What inducement had you for withholding from the 
lawful administrator of Widmer, the notes of Strassburger 
you held at the time this demand was made ? 

A. None at all, except the request of Mr. Widmer that I 
should not allow them to go out of my hands. ' 

Q. Did you claim no interest in these notes as being in 
any way your property ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you not refuse to give them up because you be- 
lieved they would be the basis of a criminal prosecution 
against Strassburger for having converted money belonging 
to the United States ? 

A. No, sir. 

(Signed,) Louis Fritz, Jr. 



clxvii. 

Mobile, June 12, 1875. 

The committee met pursuant to notice this day at 12 M., at 
the Court-house of Mobile county. Members of the commit- 
tee present — Messrs. Brewer, Coon and Price. Win. Strib- 
ling being duly sworn, upon his oath testifies as follows : 

By Mr. Price — 

Q. Were you a member of the general assembly of Ala- 
bama in the year 1872, if so, of what branch ? 

A. I was a member of the general assembly in 1872, was 
a member of the lower house of what is known as the capitol 
legislature. 

Q. Was there any other organization in Montgomery in 
the winter of i872, claiming to be a general assembly? 

A. There was what was called a court-house legislature. 

Q. Of whom or what political party was that court-house 
legislature composed? 

A. It was called the legislature of the republican or radi- 
cal party. 

Q. Were you in Montgomery at the time, or before the 
day set by law for the election of U. S. Senator? 

A. I was. 

Q. Do you know where the leading republicans kept their 
headquarters in Montgomery while the senatorial election 
was pending? 

A. I think at the Madison house. 

Q. Do you know of any effort being made to secure the 
election of Gen. Spencer to the U. S. Senate? 

A. I know that Gen. Spencer was there and a candidate 
for U. S. Senator, and that his friends Pelham, Brainard, W. 
Jones ; Whitney and others were actually working in his inter- 
ests, and they were generally about the Madison house. 

Q. Just before the day of the senatorial election, was 
there any effort made by Gen. Spencer or his friends to influ- 
ence your action favorable to Gen. Spencer's election to the 
Senate ? 

A. One Sunday shortly before the day of the election, 
perhaps a day or so, I was in company with some gentlemen 
walking, we had started to take a short walk to the country. 
I think the company was composed of myself, Nick Stall- 
worth, and perhaps John Chapman, and Jim Slater. We 
were passing the Madison house, and in front of the Madison 
house, we saw a group of Spencer's friends, and among them 
was Bill Jones of Marengo county. As we were passing 
Jones spoke to me, and stopped me, saying he wanted to see 
me. He asked me if I did not want to make some money ? 
I told him, "yes, I did," and asked him "how?" He said "if 



clxviii. 

I would quit the capitol legislature and come down to the 
court house body, that he would show me a man that would 
give me eight or ten thousand dollars for doing so. I then 
told him the capitol was the proper place for the legislature 
to meet at, and that before I would quit that legislature, and 
come down to the court house, I would lay down on the 
pavement of the sidewalk where I stood and suffer my arms 
beat off with a maul." He remarked that I was a fool, or to 
that effect. I am not positive as to his exact words. I then 
left him, and went on with my company, who were all mem- 
bers of the capitol legislature, and I told them about it at the 
time, and we talked about it a good deal on our walk, they 
approving my conduct. 

Q. Do you know J. S. Perrin, and if so, state whether you 
saw him at Montgomery at the time you have been speak- 
ing of? 

A. I know him, I played poker with him and others at my 
room at the Exchange hotel. 

Q. Did you play with him and McHue at your room at 
the Exchange before the conversation you had with Bill 
Jones, of which you have spoken, and if so, did he quit the 
game loser or winner? 

A. I did play with him before the time I had the conver- 
sation and he quit the game loser, and he quit owing me 
mone}^ which I had won from him in that game, and which 
he has never paid me. 

Q. About how long was this before the senatorial elec- 
tion? 

A. I can't exactly say how long before ; but it was only a 
few days — a short time before. 

Q. Do you remember any special thing that transpired in 
which you participated the evening and night before the elec- 
tion for senator was to take place ? If so, state it as fully and 
particularly as you can remember. 

A. If 1 am not mistaken, and I am partly certain that I 
am not, George Ellison and myself were together a good deal 
during the day before the election, and I think we walked in 
the drinking saloon owned by Beebe, called the Bialto, the 
evening or night of the day before the election. When we 
got in, I saw Whitney and Whiting (republicans), and George 
said to me, "yonder is two radicals who have plenty of money, 
and they love to play poker," (referring to Whitney and 
Whiting.) I said to George, "All right ; if they want to play, 
let's have a game;" and as we went down towards them, they 
came up meeting us, and some one proposed to drink when 
we met ; and while we were drinking the game was proposed, 



clxix. 

and we all agreed to play. Some one inquired where we 
should go to play, and if I am not mistaken, I proposed to 
get a room from Beebe, and I probably spoke to him about 
it, and then I asked Mr. Beebe it he had any cards ; he said 
he did not. I then went off and got the cards and give them. 
to Beebe, aud he gave them to a boy, who he said would wait 
on us at the room. Then we went up stairs to the room. As 
we were going up the steps, some one of them proposed that 
we should send off some where and get some whisky to drink, 
saying that Beebe's was not good ; and to this we all agreed, 
and they did send off somewhere and get some whisky in 
bottles. I don't know where they sent to, but I think some- 
thing was said about a " drug store." We remained in this 
room over the Eialto, playing pretty much all night. They 
made me banker of the game, and along about two or three 
o'clock in the morning they proposed to send off and get some 
cock-tails to drink. I agreed to this, and the cock-tails were 
sent for. I took one of them, and very soon I became very 
stupid and sleepy — so much so I could not keep awake, and 
the last thing I remember was, that I was so sleepy I could 
not play any more; and I told George Ellison that I must 
quit and go to sleep, and got upon a lounge that was near, 
and told George to be sure to wake me up at 9 o'clock in the 
morning, without fail, and he promised upon the honor of a 
gentleman to do so. I left my check on the table where we were 
playing ; and I must have lost consciousness by the time I got 
on the lounge, for I do not remember anything from that time 
until I was aroused by the Sergeant-at-arms (Mr. Titcomb) 
and some other persons. One of them was a doctor, and I 
believe one of the party was Mr. John Chapman. I think the 
doctor gave me some medicine before I was taken from the 
room to my room at the Exchange Hotel. My recollection is 
that it was late in the evening of the day following the night 
we played the game. 

Q. Had you been in the habit of drinking to excess before 
that time ? 

A. I have been drinking whisky for twenty-five years, and 
have often drank to excess before ; but I have never been ef- 
fected by any manner of drink before as I was this time. The 
effect was very serious upon me, and I don't think I have ever, 
to this day, fully recovered from it. I had a long spell of 
sickness after it, which I feel certain was brought on by that 
night's work. 

Q. Do you remember that any one aroused you while you 

12 



dxx. WL^: 

were on the lounge, before you were aroused by Mr. Titcomb 
and the doctor and others ? 

A. I have no recollection of anything of the sort. I am 
not conscious of anything from the time I went to sleep until 
I was aroused by Mr. Titcomb in the evening, and even then 
my mind was by no means clear. I know I was finally taken 
out and carried to my room at the hotel late that evening. 

Q. Did Mr. Beebe call to see you at any time during the 
day you were in the room where you played? 

A. If he did, I have no recollection of it in the world. I 
am not conscious of anything of the kind. 

Q. Do you have any recollection of taking breakfast or 
anything to eat while you were in that room ? 

A. I have no recollection of any breakfast, or anything of 
the sort ; don't think I took anything to eat that day — cer- 
tainly did not in that room, that I know of ; and have no 
knowledge of any one else eating in that room that day. 

Q. How long after that night's work was it before you 
were able again to take your seat in the house ? 

A. I was able to take my seat in a day or two after, in 
time to vote for Sykes for senator, and did not vote for him. 

Wm. C. Steibling. 

And the committee adjourned to meet again on Monday, 
14th inst., at 1 o'clock p. m., at the office of the circuit clerk, 
in the court house of Mobile county. 

The committee met pursuant to adjournment at the court 
house of Mobile county, this 14th June, 1875. Present — Hon. 
Leroy Brewer and D. E. Coon of the committee, and Harry 
Pillans, Esq. 

JOHN T. F0STEE. 

Being called and sworn, depose th and saith as follows : 

Examined by H. Pillans— 

Q. Please state where your residence was in the 1872 ; 
your age and your occupation or business at that time ? 

A. I was living in the city of Mobile, was collector of U. 
S. internal revenue for the first district of Alabama, having 
an office in the custom house at Mobile ; was about fifty-five 
years of age. 

Q. To what political party did you at that time belong ? 

A. To the republican party, and still belong to it. 

Q. Was it known to you, and was it generally known to 
the members of the republican party in and about Mobile at 
that time, that George E. Spencer would be a candidate be- 



clxxi. 

fore the general assembly of Alabama for re-election to the 
United States Senate? 

A. That was the understanding. The matter was talked 
about, and that was the general understanding. 

Q. Do you know of any means that were taken during the 
fall campaign preceding the elections that year, to secure a 
general assembly which would be certain to re-elect Mr. 
Spencer? If yea, please state fully in what they con- 
sisted? 

A. I don't think that I do, except so far as to make the 
republican party successful. 

Q. Do you know the fact that there were troops sent to 
any part of Alabama previous to the election ? 

A. I am satisfied that such was the case, as I got such in- 
formation from a variety of sources. 

Q. Did you ever hear any of your associates, U. S. reve- 
nue officers or others about the custom house, advocate the 
use of troops at that election ? State fully, and what was the 
occasion, and who so advocated their use ? 

A. The most pointed conversation I had on the subject 
was with Lou H. Mayer (at that time assessor, but now col- 
lector of internal revenue for this district,) he requested me 
to assist him and others in causing troops to be sent into por- 
tions of the first collective district, to secure a fair election as 
he said. Several other republicans about the custom house 
were in favor of the use of troops at the then coming elec- 
tion. 

Q. Into what counties in the first collective district did 
Mr. Mayer express a desire that troops should be sent ? 

A. Into Monroe, Clark, Washington, Choctaw and Ma- 
rengo counties. 

Q. Into what other counties (if any) out of this district 
did he say he wished troops to be sent ? 

A. Into Sumter and Pickens counties. 

Q. Did you assent to Mr. Mayer's proposition to send out 
troops, and if not why did you assent? 

A. I did not. I objected to aiding him in getting the 
troops sent, upon the ground that in my judgment it was not 
the best way to secure the largest republican vote. 

Q. Was, or was not Lou H. Mayer's plan carried out ? 

A. Yes ! There were squads of troops sent into some of 
the counties named, into which, however, I cannot say, but 
think into all. 

Q. Do you know who were Spencer's warmest and leading 
friends, who were working for his re-election during the cam- 
paign of 1872? 



clxxii. 

A. Yes — there were P. G. Clarke, Jacob Black, Lou H. 
Mayer, and Charles E. Mayer, Meyer Goldsmith, Jerome J. 
Hinds, DeWitt C. Whiting, Henry Cochran, P. D. Barker, 
Wm. B. Chisholm, Charles W. Dustan, Baker of Morgan 
county, Isaac Heyman of Lee county, Charles Pelham, A. W. 
McCullough. These were all strong adherents of Spencer. 

Q. Do you know of any means used for raising money to 
carry on that campaign — if so, what were they? 

A. I do not know of any, except the means used by the 
assessor, Lou H. Mayer, who demanded of his assistants ten 
dollars a month (it might have been twenty a month) for three 
months, for " political purposes," (that was the wa$ they gen- 
erally phrased it). Some of the money was paid by some of 
the assistant assessors. One of them, E. M. Hill, paid it, and 
complained to me of it, saying that contributions ought to be 
voluntary, not forced. As I have stated, it was an assessment 
levied on each employee. 

Q. Have you any recollection of any money being raised 
by Messrs. Lou H. Mayer, J. J. Moulton, and others, out of 
Poster's bank ? 

A. I do not know. 

Q. Do you know of any effort being made by either Spen- 
cer or by his friends to influence any votes or support for Mr. 
Spencer, by the promise of office, or by getting office for any 
person or persons ? 

A. I do not, so far as Spencer personally is concerned. 
As to Spencer's friends, I will say I was approached by J. J. 
Hinds and Phillip King. This was during the session of the 
court house legislature, shortly previous to Spencer's election. 
King came alone to me, said to me that he controlled six 
votes in that legislature, which would not be cast for Spencer 
unless he (King) got some office or appointment — as he said, 
" something," — and asked for an appointment from me as 
deputy collector. J. J. Hinds seconded his appeal at a later 
time, and insisted strenuously that King should have what he 
wanted — that appointment of deputy collector — so that it ap- 
peared clearly that they understood one another. I was in 
Montgomery at the time as member of the board of educa- 
tion. King was an ex- State Senator. There was another in- 
stance somewhat similar to this. It was as follows : 

M. G. Candee came to me and said he wanted the appoint- 
ment of deputy collector for the Wilcox division, where there 
was a vacancy. He did not mention Spencer's name, but he 
said to me that " he intended to help those who helped him, 
and he wanted that appointment." Afterwards, say a half a 
day or a day, J. J. Hinds came to me alone, and said that 



elxxiii. 

Candee wanted that appointment in the Wilcox division, and 
he must have it ; and added, it is necessary for him to have it 
right now. 

Q. When was this? 

A. It was some few days (within a week) before Spencer's 
election. 

Q. Did Candee get the appointment? 

A. Yes, I made the appointment. 

Q. Did you often see Spencer in Montgomerv during the 
session of the court- house legislature, previous to Spencer's 
election in 1872 ? If so, who appeared to be his most inti- 
mate supporters— his right-hand men ? 

A. Yes, I saw him frequently. The ones who seemed most 
energetic and devoted were J. J. Hinds and M. D. Brain ard. 
I could not say which was leader, as both seemed to do all 
they possibly could for Spencer. 

Q. Did Phillip King get the appointment he sought from 
you — and if not, why? Did he get any other appointment 
under government about that time — and what was it— to or 
by whom made? 

A. He did not get it, because I could not make the num- 
ber of divisions necessary to give him the place without det- 
riment to the public service. This all occurred in November 
and December, 1872. Lou H. Mayer succeeded me on 19th 
of May, 1873, and after a month or two he appointed King 
his deputy collector in the division which he had sought from 
me. 

Q. Had you any knowledge or information that Spencer, 
or any of his friends for him, had promised the office of in- 
ternal revenue collector, then held by you, to Lou H. Mayer, 
in the event of Spencer's re-election to the United States 
Senate? Answer fully. 

A. I was informed before the general election repeatedly 
that there was such a pledge given by Spencer to Lou H. 
Mayer that he should be appointed collector in my stead. I 
heard, also, that Mayer had said that he preferred this col- 
lectorship of the port of Mobile, and I was surprised, inas- 
much as the collectorship of the port of Mobile is legitimately 
worth nearly double the internal revenue collectorship. Mr. 
Mayer did get the internal revenue collectorship after Spen- 
cer's election. 

Q. What friends of Spencer's actually received offices by 
federal appointment after Spencer's election ? 

A. P. D. Barker, internal revenue collector for 2d district 
of Alabama; Henry Cochran, postmaster at Selma ; P. G. 
Clarke, special agent P. O. department, Selma ; A. P. Wilson, 



clxxiv. 

postmaster at Montgomery, Alabama; Lou H. Mayer, interna 
revenue collector for 1st district of Alabama ; Chas. W. Dus- 
tan, special treasury agent ; Baker from Morgan county, U. 
S. marshal, northern district Alabama ; W. E. Chisholm, in- 
spector of customs, Mobile ; Meyer Goldsmith, re-appointed 
auditor and deputy collector under J. C. Goodloe ; J. C. Good- 
loe, collector of customs, Mobile ; D. C. Whiting, appraiser of 
merchandise ; James Somerville, receiver in the land office, 
Mobile ; Peyton Finley, receiver in the land office, Montgom- 
ery ; Nick S. McAfee, TJ. S. attorney northern and middle dis- 
tricts of Alabama ; J. J. Hinds, XL S. marshal, mid. and so. 
districts; J. J. Osburn, deputy collector, 1st district; H. A. 
Candee, deputy collector, 1st district; H. J. Europe, deputy 
collector, 1st district; Phillip King, deputy collector, 1st dis- 
trict; M. G. Candee, deputy collector, 1st district; Ben. H. 
Thomas, deputy collector, 2d district, reappointed and after- 
wards revenue agent ; M. C. Osburn, special clerk for the su- 
pervisor ; R. A. Mosely, postmaster at Talladega ; Gov. L. E. 
Parsons, TJ. S. district judge for Alabama ; J. L. Pennington, 
governor of Dakota territory; R. M. Reynolds, collector of 
the port at Mobile. 

These are all the appointments which occur to me at this 
time. 

John T. Fostee. 

And the committee adjourned to meet again at 10 o'clock 
on to-morrow, at the office of the circuit clerk in the court 
house of Mobile county. 

Mobile, June 15th, 1875. 

The committee met pursuant to adjournment, at 10 o'clock 
A. M., at the office of the circuit clerk. 

Present — Messrs. L. Brewer and D. E. Coon. 

w. J. SQUIEES, 

Being duly sworn, upon his oath testifies as follows : 

By Mr. Brewer — 

Q. Please state where you lived in 1872, and what was 
your occupation ? 

A. I resided in Mobile, Ala., in the year 1872, and was 
deputy TJ. 8. marshal during a portion of the summer and 
fall of that year. 

Q. Did you participate actively in the campaign of that 
vear? 
" A. I did. 

Q. Was it understood at the commencement, and during 



clxxv. 

the campaign, that Spencer would be a candidate for re-elec- 
tion to the U. S. Senate? 

A. It was, as a matter of fact ; the republican state con- 
vention was organized, and run with that object in view, and 
the whole campaign was conducted for the purpose of se- 
curing a majority of Spencer's friends in the ensuing legisla- 
ture. 

Q. Were you a friend of Gen. Spencer's in that campaign, 
and did you have ample opportunity to know the plans and 
schemes of Spencer and his friends? 

A. I was his friend and had the opportunity to know what 
was going on. 

Q. Do you know of the U. S. troops being used for the 
purpose of securing the election of Spencer to the United 
States Senate ? 

A. I know of troops being used for political purposes on 
at least three different occasions. One squad of infantry, 
under control of J. S. Perrin, deputy assessor U. S. revenue, 
was sent up through Washington county, and intended also 
to operate in Clark county for the purpose of encouraging 
negroes, and intimidating the whites. Their ostensible pur- 
pose was to prosecute a search for illicit distilleries — the real 
object being what I have already stated. 

Another squad of infantry was sent by boat to report to 
J. S. Perrin at Camden, Wilcox, Monroe and Conecuh coun- 
ties. 

A squad of cavalry was sent up the Alabama river under 
the control of Geo. Turner and W. H. Holly ; said Holly was 
deputy assessor of U. S. internal revenue. They proceeded 
to Monroevilie, Monroe county, where a republican mass 
meeting was held, and addressed by said Turner. The cav- 
alry returned by the same route. 

One other squad of cavalry, under command of Lt. Nave, 
reported to Mr. Perrin, at Evergreen, Conecuh county, and 
proceeded from that place to Monroevilie, Monroe county, 
stopping at intermediate points; from thence to Claiborne, 
Monroe county, thence to Mount Pleasant, Monroe county ; 
thence to Gainestown, Clarke county ; thence to Point Jack- 
son, Clarke county ; thence to Grove Hill, Clarke county ; 
thence to Bell's Landing, Monroe county ; thence to Camden, 
Wilcox county, returning via Bridgeport and steamboat to 
Mobile, Ala. 

That trip occupied about two weeks of time. Meetings 
were held at all the places mentioned, and the national guard 
was organized. 

Q. Were the people intimidated by these expeditions in 



clxxvi. 

the sections they operated in, either by arrests being made, 
or blank U. S. warrants exhibited for the purpose of frighten- 
ing, and running voters out of those sections. 

A. Yes, the white people were intimidated. The simple 
presence of the U. S. troops at those times and places, ac- 
companied by parties acting as U. S. officials, was a source of 
great alarm to the whites. 

Some genuine warrants were issued. Mr. Perrin frequent- 
ly made inquiries as to the location of numerous citizens, inti- 
mating that they were likely to be arrested. The color of 
probability was given of this statement by the exhibition of 
genuine warrants for parties, and of a large number of blank 
warrants which were not allowed to be examined ; but were 
nevertheless exhibited to convey the impression that all the 
white men in each neighborhoad were to be arrested. This 
programme did result in frightening many from the country, 
and from the election. I will state a case in point, when we 
arrived at Monroeville, county seat of Monroe county, it was 
nearly dark ; the next morning there were scarcely any white 
men to be found in the place. Upon inquiry we found many 
had left very early that morning, fearing arrest, as they had 
no doubt heard that there were warrants out for their arrest ; 
but as a matter of fact there was no warrant out for the ar- 
rest of any party in that town. 

Q. Did Lou H. Mayer, U. S. assessor, and now collector 
of internal revenue, know of these military expeditions, and 
their intent ? 

A. He did. The troops were granted upon his requisi- 
tion, and all the plans were formed by him, or submitted for 
his approval before they were executed. 

In order to mislead the public, orders were issued that the 
troops should not be used for political purposes, and it was 
officially stated by Mr. Mayer that they were asked for simp- 
ly for revenue purposes, while the real object was political, as 
there was no occasion for the use of troops in the collection 
of revenue, which Mr. Mayer well knew. 

Q. Was Spencer aware that troops were being used for 
the purposes above mentioned? 

A. He was. The plan was approved by him before it was 
executed. I have seen letters from him stating that it was 
through his efforts and representations that troops were 
brought to this State for political purposes. 

Q. Did Spencer have any conversation with you during 
the campaign, if so, did he make you any promises of office, 
or position, or other promises as a reward for your services 
in his behalf in the campaign. 



clxxvii. 

A. He did. He promised that he would give me a posi- 
tion which would bring me a living salary until the election 
was over, which he did, and after the election a better posi- 
tion. 

Q. "What position did he give you during the cam- 
paign ? 

A. I was offered the position of inspector in the custom 
house about the 1st of July, but having declined it, I acted as 
deputy U. S. Marshal during the campaign, and my name was 
put on the roll of the custom house officers, at the instance 
of Spencer, about the 15th September of that year. I was 
not, however, required to do any duty in the custom house ; 
but drew my pay regularly except a considerable portion, 
which was retained for political purposes. 

These were the only positions I received at the hands of 
Spencer during the campaign. 

After Spencer's election, I did not get the position prom- 
ised me, and did accept that of inspector in the custom 
house. 

Q. Were you present at the time J. S. Perrin shot the 
hole in his hat ? 

A. I saw him shoot the hole in his hat. It was his prop- 
osition for getting up a sensation, in order that he could keep 
the troops at his disposal. 

Q. Who were Spencer's most confidential friends during 
this campaign ? 

A. In Mobile, L. H. Mayer, J. J. Moulton and H. Kay 
Myers. In Montgomery, J. J. Hinds, D. C. Whiting, and 
Robt. Barber. 

Q. Which of these parties named do you think was his 
most confidential friend and adviser ? 

A. It was understood that J. J. Hinds was Spencer's man- 
ager, organ and mouth-piece. 

Q. Were you at Montgomery during the court house leg- 
islature and pending Spencer's election? 

A. I was for a short time, but know nothing of my own 
knowledge of what transpired. 

Q. Do you know of your own knowledge, or otherwise, of 
any promises of office, or, of money, made to any person for 
his support to secure the election of Spencer to the U. S. sen- 
ate other than you have already mentioned. 

A. Of my own knowledge, I know nothing more than I 
have already stated. 

W. J. Squires. 

And the committee adjourned to meet again upon the call 
of the chairman. 



clxxviii. 

Montgomery, Sept. 26th, 1875. 

The committee met at the call of the chairman. 
Present — Messrs. Little, Price and Brewer. 

JAMES D. HARDIN 

Being sworn, testifies as follows : 

By Mr. Price— 

Q. Where were you living, and what was your occupation 
in November, 1872 ? 

A. I was living in this city, was bar-keeper for John 
Cashin, who kept a drinking saloon on Perry street. 

Q. Do you know any facts tending to show that Geo. E. 
Spencer was using, or had used any money to secure his 
election as U. S. Senator by the court house assembly ? 

A. Parties came to the saloon and requested that mem- 
bers of the court house assembly coming there for liquor 
should get it, and it should be charged to Mr, Spencer, which 
was done. 

Q. Name the parties who made this arrangement for 
Spencer ? 

A. W. Y. Turner, Jones of Lowndes county, J. K. Greene 
of Hale, Green Lewis of Perry, Phillip Joseph, and W. E. 
Cruzan. 

Q. Were these accounts opened ? 

A. They were, and were charged to them, and afterwards 
taken to Spencer, who paid one account of $45.00. 

James D. Hardin. 
w. v. TURNER 

Being sworn, testifies as follows : 

By Gen. Morgan — 

Q. How long have you known Geo. E. Spencer. 

A. Since 1868. I met him here as a candidate for the 
U. S. senate in that year. 

Q. Were you one of his friends and supporters in that 
race? 

A. I was not. I was in the legislature from the county of 
Elmore, and voted for Mr. Warner, and Mr. Glascock for 
U. S. Senators. 

Q. Had you any correspondence with Senator Spencer 
between 1868 and 1872. 

A. I had, and corresponded with him frequently. Some 
of the letters I now have, and some I did not preserve. 

Q. During the canvass in 1872, were you in the employ- 
ment of Mr. Spencer as a canvasser? 



clxxix. 

A. He never employed me to canvass for him at that 
time, but I was employed by the executive committee. Mr. 
Spencer was very influential with the committee. 

Q. Who was the chairman of the committee at that 
time ? 

A. D. C. Whiting. 

Q. State what you know in regard to the purpose or aim 
of the committee regarding the election of Mr. Spencer to 
the U. S. Senate? 

A. At that time, during the canvass of 1872, the republi- 
can party was divided into two factions — the Warner and 
Spencer factions. 

The committee desired me to secure the votes of the ten 
counties of the third district for Spencer for U. S. senator ; 
that was the object in sending me to the 3d district. Major 
Norris was an influential man with the negroes in the third 
district, but some how they had more confidence in me than 
Norris. I followed up Norris, and in the conventions, secured 
the nomination of Spencer men. I met him, and beat him 
at every point ; Norris was a Warner man. 

Q. State whether Mr. Spencer made you any promises for 
the services you had rendered him? 

A. He promised me any position I wanted in the U. S. 
service that could be secured by his influence, for the servi- 
ces I had performed in securing for him the votes for U. S. 
senator. 

Q. Did you secure votes for him for U. S. senator ? 
A. I did. I secured the votes of J. R. Treadwell, G. R. 
Millen, both of Russell, Henry St. Clair and Patterson of Ma- 
con, and other members of the legislature. 

Q. Did you require pledges of these members to go for 
Spencer? 

A. I did. I procured their nomination on condition that 
they would vote for him. 

Q. State whether Spencer furnished you any money in 
in conducting this canvass? 

A. He did. He furnished me money at anytime and place 
I wanted it. 

Q. State whether he authorized you to make any promises 
of office or preferment to members of the legislature in con- 
sideration of their support of him. 

A. I told members, according to his instructions, that he 
would give them office if they would support him for the U. 
S. Senate. 

Q. State whether or not Senator Spencer paid your ex- 
penses while you were a delegate to the National Republican 
Convention in June, 1872, at Philadelphia. 



clxxx. 

A. He paid my expenses while I was there. 

Q. Were you at Montgomery at the meeting of the Gen- 
eral Assembly in November, 1872 ? 

A. I was. 

Q. At what time did Senator Spencer arrive in Mont- 
gomery ? 

A. Very soon after the legislature assembled. 

Q. When he arrived, did you have any conversation with 
him about his election for U. S. Senate? 

A. I did. It was at his instance I was here. I had fre- 
quent conversations with him. 

Q. Who were his chief agents or assistants in his efforts 
to secure his election to the XL S. Senate? 

A. J. J. Hinds, D. C. Whiting, and Calvin Goodloe. 

Q. State whether or not Spencer, in order to secure his 
election to the U. 8. Senate, did authorize you to make any 
promises to members that he would secure them positions, in 
consideration of their support of him. 

A. He did. He said he would secure them positions in 
the custom house, and other places. 

Q. Do you know of any pecuniary considerations that 
passed between Spencer, or any of his agents, and members 
of the court house legislature, in order to secure his support 
of him for the U. S. Senate, or anything tending to show that 
there was such consideration? If so, state it. 

A. I did not see any member receive any money ; but it 
was generally understood that Hinds was Spencer's cashier, 
and any member that needed money, could get it from him. 
I told several to go to Hinds and get money. They had none 
before they went to him, and when they came back they had 
money — ten and twenty dollar bills. I saw Calvin Goodloe 
on one occasion bring a thousand dollars into the room of Mr. 
Spencer while I was there, and hand it to Spencer. Mr. Spen- 
cer seemed disappointed that it was not two thousand, and 
stated as much. Spencer said he had spent two or three 
thousand dollars already. Goodloe said he would get another 
thousand for him. This was while the election of Spencer 
was pending in the court house assembly. 

Q. What use did you understand had been made by Spen- 
cer of the two or three thousand dollars ? 

A. I inferred from what was said, and what I know of the 
correct history of the campaign, that the money was used for 
securing Spencer's election to the U. S. Senate. 

Q. Do you know John Cashin ? 

A. I do. 

Q. What was his occupation in November, 1872 ? 



clxxxi. 

A. He was keeping a bar and billiard saloon on Perry st., 
near the CJ. S. court room. 

Q. State any arrangement Mr. Spencer made with you to 
procure liquors for members of the court house assembly. 

A. He authorized me to contract for liquor and cigars for 
them wherever I could — to have an open bar. I went to 
Cashin and made the arrangement with him. 

Q. State whether the colored members of the court house 
assembly were supplied according to this arrangement. 

A. They were liberally supplied. 

Q. State whether Spencer paid the bill. 

A. The day before his election he paid forty-five dollars. 
He told Cashin in my presence to let the colored members 
have anything they wanted — to spare nothing — he would be 
responsible. 

Q. What did the bill amount to ? 

A. The night of the day he was elected, Cashin threw 
open everything — the bill was heavy — we had a jubilee — the 
bill was $160 or more. 

Q. Has this bill ever been paid ? 

A. It has not. Spencer refused to pay it. Cashin went 
to him for it. He told Cashin to come to me for it, and if I 
did not pay it, to have me indicted for obtaining goods under 
false pretenses. 

Q. During Spencer's canvass for the Senate of the U. S. 
did he secure to you any position ? If so, what was the po- 
sition, what services did you perform, and what pay did you 
receive ? 

A. He secured for me the position of inspector of customs 
at the port of Mobile. I performed no services ; my commis- 
sion was special inspector of customs ; I was in the canvass ; 
I received four dollars a day ; I signed my vouchers and sent 
them to Mobile ; I was not there during my term of office, 
except when I was sworn in. 

Q. Why was this office bestowed upon you by Senator 
Spencer? 

A. It was to support me in the canvass, and to secure my 
support of him for the Senate of the United States. 

Q. By Mr. Little. How long did you hold the office ? 

A. Until after Spencer's election. I received $^48, two 
months pay. 

Q. Did Goodloe receive any office ? 

A. He was appointed collector of customs of Mobile. 

Wm. Y. Tuener. 



clxxxii. 

Montgomery, December 29, 1875. 
The committee met at room 31 Exchange Hotel, and 

J. J. ROBINSON 

Being duly sworn, testifies as follows : 

I was a member of the State Senate from the 11th senato- 
rial district during the session of '72-3, and am still a mem- 
ber. 

I have examined the protest, signed by myself and fifteen 
other senators, introduced into the Senate on the 23d April, 
1873, and printed in the journals of the Senate for that ses- 
sion on pages 640 to 644 inclusive, and the statements of facts 
in said protest touching the action of the Senate, and the pre- 
siding officer thereof, in the Miller-Martin contest, are true as 
set forth, and a full and correct account of said proceedings. 

(Signed) J. J. Kobinson. 



d m. . »«c: 



